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标题: 让我们支持Jan Wong [打印本页]
作者: s.laurent    时间: 2006-9-23 11:35
标题: 让我们支持Jan Wong
相信大家都看报和听收音机吧，这二天的头条新闻就是魁北克人要求　Jan Wong　道歉。魁省长、加总理都跳出来了，我觉得很好笑，一直已民主和多人种、多民族平等为自豪的加拿大竟然是这样容不得人揭丑，　气量之小！！
作者: newpartner88    时间: 2006-9-23 12:53
标题: JAN WONG出生在QUEBEC
她在这生活这末多年,讲出这话,自然有她的个人理由

如果对这都这么敏感

那西方对不完全了解的中国又有什么资格评论呢

原文在
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060915.wxshooting-main16/BNStory/National/

JAN WONG用惯常描述她所失望的红色中国的手法描述这一事件(以西方的标准是个人的言论自由,并加入部分自己的主观判断)

但在民主社会的QUEBEC, CANADA, 她捅了马蜂窝

这两天几个开餐馆的朋友生意好象都有些受影响


QUEBECOIS的民族情绪确实很重啊
作者: inalan    时间: 2006-9-23 13:31
标题: Ding
ding!
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-23 14:56
看了WONG的文章，她的主观意识确实很强。
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-23 16:05
我没法支持                                                                                                                                    JAN WONG.
她的结论是错的. 误导, 不负责任.
非"pure laine",可能受到排挤, 压迫, 但拿起枪来屠杀无辜, 我认为环境的因素是很小的一部分.
她这么说话对社会不公平, alienation肯定有, 但绝没到这个程度.
而且, 假如相信她的话,那么我们每个移民都比别人有更多的潜力成为凶手, 我没法相信.
作者: sz    时间: 2006-9-23 16:08
Jan Wong的说法并不是一无是处的，她是点到魁北克人的痛处了，所以让魁北克人跳了脚

十年来的三起枪杀案，三名凶手都是族裔人士，都是因为受到了一些可以是看作歧视的对待，所以郁积在心里，直到有一天爆发

http://69.59.141.116/htdocs/news ... -AE7D30129551.shtml

3宗枪击事件中的枪手，包括原名是Gamil Gharbi的阿尔及利亚穆斯林青年Marc Lepine、俄罗斯裔教授Valery Fabrikant和印度裔青年Kimveer Gill都不是正宗说法语人士，

这难道不是巧合么？在魁北克，不会说法语的移民，谁没有遇到这样或那样的冷眼？？为什么魁北克现在有大量省民外流，魁北克难道不应该检讨一下么？两次魁独公投给魁北克带来的是什么，魁北克难道不应该检讨一下么？孤芳自赏是不行的，魁北克应该与世界融合才对。

拿枪当然是错误的，但是，是不是也应该反省一下，怎么去尽可能的避免这样的悲剧发生？不是增加警力就完了，任何事都有前因后果，如果ＧＩＬＬ不是郁积了这么多不满，他不会出现精神上的崩溃


换句话说，Jan WONG为什么不能表达自己的观点，不是说加拿大言论自由么？反对党指责政府派兵阿富汗，保守党不满同性婚姻，保守党指责中国人权......他们都能表达自己的不同的观点，为什么不能让普通人也表达自己的观点，难道就是因为Jan Wong是个族裔人士，所以就觉得她可以被打压？？可以向她施加压力？？
作者: .XM.    时间: 2006-9-23 16:14
刚读了这文章, 俺没觉得有什么问题.
Post by newpartner88
她在这生活这末多年,讲出这话,自然有她的个人理由

如果对这都这么敏感

那西方对不完全了解的中国又有什么资格评论呢

原文在
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060915.wxshooting-main16/BNStory/National/

JAN WONG用惯常描述她所失望的红色中国的手法描述这一事件(以西方的标准是个人的言论自由,并加入部分自己的主观判断)

但在民主社会的QUEBEC, CANADA, 她捅了马蜂窝

这两天几个开餐馆的朋友生意好象都有些受影响


QUEBECOIS的民族情绪确实很重啊
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-23 16:18
Post by PPV

CBC对台湾省的“倒遍”风暴有多少报道呢？从这一点就可以看出西方政府的虚伪！
我对台湾省的“倒遍”没什么兴趣. 我觉得没什么好报道的.
作者: sz    时间: 2006-9-23 16:53
Post by allfollowme
总觉得这里面有一个逻辑错误。
如果吉尔先生是因为受到魁省法语主流的疏立与排斥而心怀怨恨开枪，他应该把枪口对着讲法语的人才对啊。
好比，一个人受了另一个人的欺负，然后就在家打自己的弟弟妹妹，好像逻辑不通一样。


吉尔是丧心病狂，不管他选择哪个学校，那个学校的学生都是无辜的，他只是想杀人想发汇想在死前造成轰动，他已经是失去思想的理智了，如果他有理智，还知道选择去杀什么人，那可能他就不会去 杀人

这就象911事件，恐怖分子就想杀美国人想制造轰动，而在我们很多人看来，是布什惹了他们，他们应该把枪口对准布什而不是无辜的人才对啊，但是，他们没法找到布什去发泄，只好拿老百姓出气

这就象有些人在办公室受了气，不敢拿老板撒气，回家只能跟家人乱发脾气，这看上去是不合逻辑，但事实常常这样发生
作者: newpartner88    时间: 2006-9-23 17:05
将歧视（尤其是隐性的）与杀人挂钩,很有可能引起争议（无论在中国还是ＱＵＥＢＥＣ，　ＣＡＮＡＤＡ）
因为道理很简单，一个正常的人，如果面对不可抗拒的歧视，他会选择离开／逃避．

JAN　ＷＯＮＧ如果象将描写红色中国的文章发表在ＣＡＮＡＤＡ一样
将此文章发表在中国，也许会有很多人赞同／共鸣


但在错误的时间地点发表了可能引起争议的文章


结局就不好说啦

ＪＡＮ WONG没明白

非我族类其心必异的道理


感觉JAN的文章跟NEWYORKER的记者描写庞氏猜想和邱大师的文章一样

好象都是个人主观的东西很多啊

是否记者都这样啊

个人感觉ZF倒是应该好好管管枪支的问题啦
希望不要想美国那样
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-23 17:51
Post by PPV
CBC对香港民众上街向中国中央政府讨“民主”的游行到是很感兴趣嘛！
我对这个也没什么兴趣. 我觉得没什么好报道的.
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-23 19:41
根据MR.GILL在网上的留言，他仇恨所有的人，社会，但他认为QUEBEC却是个“OK"LACE TO LIVE. 这怎么解释WONG归纳的QUEBEC问题而导致的极端事件呢？

这仅仅是一个普遍的社会问题，年青人精神失常，加上枪支泛滥。

我也很讨厌QUEBEC的法语政策，但是。。。我们真有权利要求QUEBEC人来说中文吗？

Post by sz
Jan Wong的说法并不是一无是处的，她是点到魁北克人的痛处了，所以让魁北克人跳了脚

十年来的三起枪杀案，三名凶手都是族裔人士，都是因为受到了一些可以是看作歧视的对待，所以郁积在心里，直到有一天爆发

http://69.59.141.116/htdocs/news_12/quebec_13/2006/09-22/ACE16457-07F7-B8DA-1E81-AE7D30129551.shtml

3宗枪击事件中的枪手，包括原名是Gamil Gharbi的阿尔及利亚穆斯林青年Marc Lepine、俄罗斯裔教授Valery Fabrikant和印度裔青年Kimveer Gill都不是正宗说法语人士，

这难道不是巧合么？在魁北克，不会说法语的移民，谁没有遇到这样或那样的冷眼？？为什么魁北克现在有大量省民外流，魁北克难道不应该检讨一下么？两次魁独公投给魁北克带来的是什么，魁北克难道不应该检讨一下么？孤芳自赏是不行的，魁北克应该与世界融合才对。

拿枪当然是错误的，但是，是不是也应该反省一下，怎么去尽可能的避免这样的悲剧发生？不是增加警力就完了，任何事都有前因后果，如果ＧＩＬＬ不是郁积了这么多不满，他不会出现精神上的崩溃


换句话说，Jan WONG为什么不能表达自己的观点，不是说加拿大言论自由么？反对党指责政府派兵阿富汗，保守党不满同性婚姻，保守党指责中国人权......他们都能表达自己的不同的观点，为什么不能让普通人也表达自己的观点，难道就是因为Jan Wong是个族裔人士，所以就觉得她可以被打压？？可以向她施加压力？？
作者: overseachina    时间: 2006-9-23 21:11
大家难道觉得魁北克这样的政策和风气对中国人没有影响吗？请看

http://www.chinaqw.com.cn/hqhr/hrdt/200608/19/41487.shtml
作者: overseachina    时间: 2006-9-23 21:46
大家学习过魁北克历史的，不知道还记不记得1970年的十月危机？！:eek!:

现在强势的法语族群，难道忘记了当年自己是怎么做的吗？

顺便跟allfollowme提一下，当年被害的那个劳工厅长，是法裔。:cool:
作者: overseachina    时间: 2006-9-23 22:40
Post by allfollowme
为什么？老有人点俺的名字。
俺从来没有说法裔法语至上这个问题不存在，也没有说移民被边缘化不存在，俺只是说，，，晕了，有点秀才遇见兵的感觉。

俺只是说，具体，吉尔先生开枪和上面这些问题，并没有必然联系，因为，逻辑关系不明显。

唉，俺还不如去泡哥哥。


呵呵，我也只是想问，当年杀害法裔劳工厅长，逻辑关系明显么？;)
作者: LOL    时间: 2006-9-23 22:57
我赞成Jan Wong的观点。三起校园枪杀案是与魁省的移民边缘政策有联系的，虽然没有直接联系。对此有异议的人士，请到魁北克城亲自体验一年。

关于最近餐馆生意不好的问题。。。La Presse报道说Jan Wong的父亲就在这儿开餐馆，生意一直好的不得了。。。也许本地人想给Jan Wong一个下马威。。。哈哈。。。看这些本地人能绝食多久！！

对于Jan Wong，支持不支持都无所谓。。。她年轻时就很叛逆，敢想敢做。曾经是毛主席的fans,并在文革时入跑去北京大学。。。这么叛逆的人，还怕魁北克的那几张嘴？
作者: overseachina    时间: 2006-9-23 23:09
Post by allfollowme
俺对于魁北克历史不是很清楚，听人提过这个事情，属于道听途说吧，别人说，因为当时魁北克失业率很高，所以，劳工部长给一个组织给杀了。
个人认为，尽管俺不认可这种方式，但是，逻辑关系还是有的。
如果事情不是这样的，那请指教。


十月危机是魁北克分离主义暴力活动的顶峰。我们都知道魁独是怎么回事吧？失业率最多只是一个导火索而已，矛盾的焦点是要争取法裔的地位。

按照你之前所说的逻辑，当时应该拿英裔开刀才对。:cool:

我也不知道GILL杀人的真实原因是什么（警方也不一定查得出来）。我只是想说，不是每件事情都能找到清晰的逻辑，特别是当事人被情绪控制的时候。
作者: alloregarde    时间: 2006-9-23 23:51
Le devoir 昨天登了关于Jan Wong 的漫画。 有歧视中国人倾向。

source: http://www.ledevoir.com/2006/09/22/images/car_220906.gif
[url="http://www.ledevoir.com/2006/09/22/images/car_220906.gif"][/url]
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-24 00:02
通知，不要把歧视日常化。。。


Post by alloregarde
Le devoir 昨天登了关于Jan Wong 的漫画。 有歧视中国人倾向。

source: http://www.ledevoir.com/2006/09/22/images/car_220906.gif
作者: overseachina    时间: 2006-9-24 00:10
除了GILL本人，没有人会知道真实原因的。甚至他自己也未必知道。因为，当你情绪爆发的时候，受伤害的往往不是伤害你的人。

但是，这并不妨碍我喜欢JAN WONG的这篇文章。:wink:

因为，终于有人站出来给了那些傲慢的人们当头一棒。
作者: wu808    时间: 2006-9-24 06:50
如果明白魁省的官方语言是法语而不是英语, 那么就应该理解JAN WONG是对或错.
在联邦政府部门如果不用英语/法语服务, 你可以投诉. 但是在魁省政府部门如果不用英语, 投诉应该没有用, 因为魁省的官方语言是法语.

如果移民打算在魁省长期住下去, 那么你就要学法语,至少一些日常生活的用语并且了解一些基本的文化. 你不能要求官方语言是法语的当地人都能说英语. 除非住在象MONTREAL这样的城市, 否则办事很困难.

GILL 应该是很小就在魁省, 即使去英语学校, 也应该通过法语考试. 否则不能毕业. 特别他的家在LAVAL, 法语交流应该没有问题, 否则他的父母就有责任. 即--不会法语还在法语区居住(如果他不会法语).

移民被歧视是一个不可否认的事实. 但是移民到魁省, 就要接受这个不公平的事实. 例如, 你是老板, 如果水平相差不悬殊, 你是要一个能熟练说法语的职员, 还是要只是一丁点的法语的职员, 特别是法语为官方语言的地方?

我不赞同JAN WONG的三次枪击事件同当地文化有关. 也许三个枪手同他们原来的文化有关. 特别是哪个穆斯林青年, 完全是穆斯林教育的结果. 女人永远是男人的附属品. 听说GILL的家庭是属于锡克族, 大家都知道锡克族的背景.

JAN WONG是在错误时间发表了不负责任的文章. 这也为华人带来危机. 如果我是当地人, 那么会我就认为JAN WONG的观点是许多华人的观点, 那么我就会对华人有一种排斥的观念.

如果有华人公开支持JAN WONG, 那么就是自己与自己过不去, 除非想离开魁省.
作者: vincent_s    时间: 2006-9-24 08:36
标题: 哈哈
大哥，官方语言是法语和英语。。。。
任何政府机关拒绝用英语服务的是违反联邦法的！
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-24 10:38
Post by vincent_s
大哥，官方语言是法语和英语。。。。
任何政府机关拒绝用英语服务的是违反联邦法的！

联邦政府和省政府是两个政府. 几乎是平等的关系.
法也是两种, 联邦法和省法.
作者: LOL    时间: 2006-9-24 10:39
尽管魁省的官方语言是法语,但是英语居民在魁省有要求英语医疗服务和公共服务的权利，否则政府就是违法。魁省自己在这方面有承诺，最近看René的人都知道，推动魁省独立同时保护英语少数居民的权利——这个设想是René Lévesque最先提出的。

Jan Wong对Bill 101早就不满了，Dawson枪杀案只不过是她宣泄的导火索。Jan Wong认为1)每个孩子都有选择自己语言的权利。2)语言文化保护之类的东西最好由博物馆去做。3)Bill 101使蒙特利尔没有以前多元。

我非常欣赏Jan Wong敢说敢做的作风(欢迎"黄蜂"们加入Jan Wong的粉丝群，百度“黄明珍”贴吧)。
作者: redneck    时间: 2006-9-24 11:49
“天上没有玉皇，地下没有龙王；我就是玉皇，我就是龙王。”“喝令三山五岳开道，我来了！” 我们来改造魁北克来了！

我们是毛泽东的后代，我们是王洪文的部下，斗争，斗争，再斗争；造反，造反，再造反。

坚决支持Jan Wong，与魁北克文化斗争到底！通过我们的努力，使中文成为魁北克唯一官方语言的日子一定会到来！

中国的无产阶级只有解放全人类，才能最后解放自己。

作者: LLF    时间: 2006-9-24 13:21
标题: 言论自由何在？？？
重要的问题不是JAN WANG 的观点对还是不对。而是他有无权利享受宪法赋予她的言论自由的权利。
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-24 13:56
如果不自由，能让她发表吗？
Post by LLF
重要的问题不是JAN WANG 的观点对还是不对。而是他有无权利享受宪法赋予她的言论自由的权利。
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-24 14:08
同意语言法是有点过分，但总不能把什么都往上靠啊。

就比方说新移民找不到工作，就TMD骂加拿大人为什么不说中文，偏要说见鬼的英文和法文。

很多男通知搞不到女人，就TMD骂女人为什么要穿着裤子在街上跑。

这个年代，不敢说敢做能提高点击率吗？咱不也是通过天天踢东墙撞西墙，有事没事吃人家个豆腐混出来的？

那WONG妈妈不就瞅了时机，借了MONTRAL门户大开，吃了魁北克一记豆腐？
Post by LOL
尽管魁省的官方语言是法语,但是英语居民在魁省有要求英语医疗服务和公共服务的权利，否则政府就是违法。魁省自己在这方面有承诺，最近看René的人都知道，推动魁省独立同时保护英语少数居民的权利——这个设想是René Lévesque最先提出的。

Jan Wong对Bill 101早就不满了，Dawson枪杀案只不过是她宣泄的导火索。Jan Wong认为1)每个孩子都有选择自己语言的权利。2)语言文化保护之类的东西最好由博物馆去做。3)Bill 101使蒙特利尔没有以前多元。

我非常欣赏Jan Wong敢说敢做的作风(欢迎"黄蜂"们加入Jan Wong的粉丝群，百度“黄明珍”贴吧)。
作者: wu808    时间: 2006-9-24 14:31
Post by LOL
尽管魁省的官方语言是法语,但是英语居民在魁省有要求英语医疗服务和公共服务的权利，否则政府就是违法。魁省自己在这方面有承诺，最近看René的人都知道，推动魁省独立同时保护英语少数居民的权利——这个设想是René Lévesque最先提出的。

Jan Wong对Bill 101早就不满了，Dawson枪杀案只不过是她宣泄的导火索。Jan Wong认为1)每个孩子都有选择自己语言的权利。2)语言文化保护之类的东西最好由博物馆去做。3)Bill 101使蒙特利尔没有以前多元。

我非常欣赏Jan Wong敢说敢做的作风(欢迎"黄蜂"们加入Jan Wong的粉丝群，百度“黄明珍”贴吧)。
你说的没有错, 英语居民在魁省有要求英语医疗服务和公共服务的权利. 这只是在说英语的居民区. 在这些区的职员一般都是双语. 最简单的例子就是路牌. 英语的居民区的路牌一般都有很小的法语在下面. 而在法语区, 只有法语.
如果你住在北部的一些城市, 即使是LAVAL, 如果不会法语, 就能体会办事的麻烦.
很多人不满意Bill 101, 经过这些年的说英语的人努力, 魁省已经开始放宽孩子上英语学校的限制.
但是Jan Wong不应该利用这次枪击事件来攻击Bill 101. 按照Jan Wong的逻辑, 当地的英裔更应该有可能使用暴力. 如果我没有记错, 阿尔及利亚是通用法语的国家. 他的语言应该没有问题, 从他只杀妇女来看, 应该是受穆斯林的影响. 据说BILL的家庭属于锡克教. 锡克教的教育有他们自己的方法. 据说男孩都被教育成能为舍身保卫家族勇敢的人.

Bill 101已经不适合魁省在现代北美的发展, 估计将要修改或废除. 这也是现在对Bill 101的执行不是象以前那么严格原因.
Bill 101实际的本质是保护说法语人的特权, 魁省的多元不是Bill 101的目的. 从这方面来说, 魁独已经达到了目的. 谁能说大多数移民的孩子不能说法语? 但我敢肯定许多华人家庭的孩子, 不能用汉语进行一般的读/写.

如果Jan Wong单纯反对Bill 101, 我想应该有很多人支持, 特别这些说英语的人和移民. Jan Wong敢说敢做的作风同枪击事件联系一起可能起到反作用, 特别对我们这些移民. 特别是这些当地的公司, 当雇佣职员是移民时......,如果你是老板, 你如何想?
作者: sz    时间: 2006-9-24 18:04
Post by wu808
GILL 应该是很小就在魁省, 即使去英语学校, 也应该通过法语考试. 否则不能毕业. 特别他的家在LAVAL, 法语交流应该没有问题, 否则他的父母就有责任. 即--不会法语还在法语区居住(如果他不会法语)..

GILL出生在魁北克,成长在魁北克,不过,他从小就上的英文小学和中学, 很遗憾, 他中学未能毕业(原因不详), 在高中一年级时辍学了, 法语交流很有问题
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-24 20:31
Post by LLF
重要的问题不是JAN WANG 的观点对还是不对。而是他有无权利享受宪法赋予她的言论自由的权利。
我想看看有没有更大的字体.
作者: Lurker    时间: 2006-9-24 21:04
Post by wu808
如果明白魁省的官方语言是法语而不是英语, 那么就应该理解JAN WONG是对或错.
在联邦政府部门如果不用英语/法语服务, 你可以投诉. 但是在魁省政府部门如果不用英语, 投诉应该没有用, 因为魁省的官方语言是法语.

如果移民打算在魁省长期住下去, 那么你就要学法语,至少一些日常生活的用语并且了解一些基本的文化. 你不能要求官方语言是法语的当地人都能说英语. 除非住在象MONTREAL这样的城市, 否则办事很困难.

GILL 应该是很小就在魁省, 即使去英语学校, 也应该通过法语考试. 否则不能毕业. 特别他的家在LAVAL, 法语交流应该没有问题, 否则他的父母就有责任. 即--不会法语还在法语区居住(如果他不会法语).

移民被歧视是一个不可否认的事实. 但是移民到魁省, 就要接受这个不公平的事实. 例如, 你是老板, 如果水平相差不悬殊, 你是要一个能熟练说法语的职员, 还是要只是一丁点的法语的职员, 特别是法语为官方语言的地方?

我不赞同JAN WONG的三次枪击事件同当地文化有关. 也许三个枪手同他们原来的文化有关. 特别是哪个穆斯林青年, 完全是穆斯林教育的结果. 女人永远是男人的附属品. 听说GILL的家庭是属于锡克族, 大家都知道锡克族的背景.

JAN WONG是在错误时间发表了不负责任的文章. 这也为华人带来危机. 如果我是当地人, 那么会我就认为JAN WONG的观点是许多华人的观点, 那么我就会对华人有一种排斥的观念.

如果有华人公开支持JAN WONG, 那么就是自己与自己过不去, 除非想离开魁省.



理性!
作者: alloregarde    时间: 2006-9-24 21:45
Jan Wong 讲Dawson 枪击事件是由于0少数民族在魁省被边缘化而导致。这个解释是过于牵强。
但是魁省少数民族的在各种方面受到压制也是不争的事实。
比如, 蒙特利尔的 市政府服务 只有6% 是少数民族员工， 虽然少数民族人口已占到22%.
最近保守党 国会议员Luc Harvey 透露在魁北克城附近有两个国会议员,为了被那里的选民接受,把一家人的姓改成Quebecois 的姓.
魁省民族主义运动必然会引起种族问题。尤其是今天的大多数不是Quebecois的少数民族还是不想独立.
95年 魁人党魁Jacques Parizeau 讲公投失败原因是由于钱和少数民族的票使很多人都记忆犹新.（95年60%的法裔同意独立）

source:
http://www.mcgilldaily.com/view.php?aid=4525
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=07b9f97e-1c7e-44aa-bd89-093e7a3f6b4d&k=76406
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Parizeau
作者: sz    时间: 2006-9-25 00:46
不仅仅是移民在指责魁省的不宽容，连一些讲法语的人士也在指责

2nd Tory MP draws flak for citing Quebec intolerance
After reporter linked it to Dawson shooting


OTTAWA/QUEBEC – A second Quebec Conservative MP accused Quebecers of intolerance toward immigrants yesterday, just as Charlesbourg–Haute-Saint-Charles MP Daniel Petit publicly retracted controversial comments linking intolerance of immigrants to the Dawson College shooting.
   Luc Harvey, Conservative MP for the Quebec City riding of Louis-Hébert, distanced himself Petit’s remarks, but said it’s true that immigrants suffer discrimination in the provincial capital.
   In fact, Quebec City has been so intolerant that the families of two local members of Parliament changed their family name in order to be accepted, he said.
   “There are two MPs from the Quebec City region whose family names weren’t Québécois and they had to change their names,” he said, declining to name them.
   He echoed some of Petit’s sentiments, saying Quebec City has a lot to learn and a long way to go in integrating immigrants.
   “Making a link between what happened at Dawson College and integration was a very grave error, but that doesn’t change the fact that there is a very large amount of work to be done on integration in Quebec City and, in my opinion, in the rest of Canada,” he said.
作者: alloregarde    时间: 2006-9-25 18:53
标题: Jan Wong 的反应



MONTREAL -- A Globe and Mail reporter says she’s been the target of sexist and racist attacks over an article that suggested the gunman who opened fire on Montreal college students was marginalized by Quebec culture.
Jan Wong said Monday she’s received e-mails laced with profanity and has been attacked for her Asian heritage.
“I think it’s really healthy that people disagree with me,” Wong told CBC Radio in Montreal on Monday.
She said debate is good but “there have been racist and sexist attacks.”
Specifically, she cited a cartoon that appeared in Montreal Le Devoir on Friday.
The editorial cartoon shows her with slanted eyes, glasses and large teeth, cracking open Wong’s fortune cookies to read a fortune that says, “Beware of Bill 101,” the province’s controversial language law.
“You can attack my journalistic style or my methods but to bring in fortune cookies is now bringing in my ethnicity,” she told CBC.
Stressing that she was born and raised in Montreal, Wong said the cartoon depicts an Asian stereotype.
“They show me with buck teeth and these round, thick glasses,” she said. “That’s a Japanese, World War II stereotype and I think it’s ugly, and I think that if I was Jewish maybe they would portray me with a hooked nose.”
Jules Richer, Le Devoir’s managing editor, said the paper hadn’t received a complaint from Wong.
He defended the cartoon, which he said is a reference to a restaurant her father owns in the city.
“It’s quite well-known in Montreal that her father has a restaurant,” he said. “It’s not racist. It’s just a family (reference).”
As far as the physical portrayal in the cartoon: “That’s an exaggeration because it’s a caricature,” he said.
In the article, Wong wrote that Dawson College killer Kimveer Gill, Ecole Polytechnique murderer Marc Lepine and Valery Fabrikant, a Concordia University professor who killed four colleagues in 1992, had “all been marginalized, in a society that valued `pure laine’”, a common term to describe someone who is francophone through and through.
Gill was of Indian origin, Lepine was half-Algerian and Fabrikant was an immigrant from the former Soviet Union.
Wong has been the subject of editorials and cartoons in just about every Montreal newspaper, including the English-language Montreal Gazette and the French-language Montreal La Presse.
Both Quebec Premier Jean Charest and Prime Minister Stephen Harper condemned Wong’s article.
In a letter to the Globe and Mail last week, Harper called her comments absurd and without foundation.
“It is not only grossly irresponsible on her part, it is also completely prejudiced to lay blame on Quebec society in this manner,” he wrote.
Wong said Monday that Harper shouldn’t have entered the debate.
“I think it’s completely inappropriate that the prime minister would weigh in, with all the weight and power of his office, into something that is really a free-press issue,” she said.
Wong said she thinks Harper is just trying to win votes in Quebec, where his popularity has declined in recent months and where he and the premier have a very public difference of opinion on federal gun control legislation.
She also defended her article.
“I think what happened at Dawson College is so sad and so tragic that people need to explore is this just an accident or is there something going on here? Why are there three? And I think we need to talk about that.”

source: http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=1c587561-ae6b-445a-acc9-a8d492bf20ee&k=75808
作者: alloregarde    时间: 2006-9-25 19:00
标题: Quebecois pure laine
Jan Wong 说:
" But what is also true is that in all three cases the perpetrator was not pure laine. Elsewhere to talk of racial 'purity' is repugnant. Not in Quebec."

每个魁北克居民应该都是Quebecois. 但在魁北克每天都可以听到 “Quebecois pure laine” (纯羊毛的Quebecois), "Quebecois de souche" 等等用词. 例如, 94 年, CKAC电台主持人在转播LilleHammer冬奥会时讲:" 一个“Quebecois pure laine”, Jean-Luc Brassard, 刚刚赢了加拿大第一块金牌!!!"
魁省的其他民族会感到被排除之外。当然这种并不代表侮辱歧视其他民族.
我不知在加拿大其他省份是否对自己是比如正统英裔有自豪感. 听说在美国, 如果将某人是WASP(White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, 白人盎格魯薩克遜新教徒), 是一种嘲讽性的语言.


source:
http://www.cbsc.ca/english/decisions/decisions/1995/951206f.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/WASP
作者: NorthFace    时间: 2006-9-25 21:58
Jan Wong 没有或未能直指的士魁北克的畸形文化。

整个西方都已经和在继续退化，从人种到社会到文化。而其它部分的世界的文化并没有真正的进步。
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-25 22:17
Post by NorthFace
Jan Wong 没有或未能直指的士魁北克的畸形文化。

整个西方都已经和在继续退化，从人种到社会到文化。而其它部分的世界的文化并没有真正的进步。
有精神领袖的味道.
作者: brucekuang    时间: 2006-9-25 23:30
标题: support! Jan Wong
what she said was reasonable!   i support jan Wang:frown:
作者: nidie    时间: 2006-9-26 09:25
标题: 说这么说，但实际是用法语。
除非去其他省。


Post by vincent_s
大哥，官方语言是法语和英语。。。。
任何政府机关拒绝用英语服务的是违反联邦法的！
作者: where to go    时间: 2006-9-26 10:55
标题: I strongly support Jan Wong.
Finally, somebody, a Chinese woman stands up and finger points the weakness of French purifying. I am tired of Bill 101. Yes, I have no problem to learn a new language, but don't force me to accept a culture. We all have the freedom and right to choose to do something. The Bill 101 absolutely is against the Human Rights Chart.
I suggest that we do something to support Jan Wong and make it an event to loosen up the Bill 101, for our children and thires. Otherwise we will lose our Chinese culture forever on this piece of land.
作者: wu808    时间: 2006-9-26 12:51
为什么说一套, 而做一套呢? 如果自己的计算机都不支持中文, 还谈什么保护中文文化?
Post by where to go
Finally, somebody, a Chinese woman stands up and finger points the weakness of French purifying. I am tired of Bill 101. Yes, I have no problem to learn a new language, but don't force me to accept a culture. We all have the freedom and right to choose to do something. The Bill 101 absolutely is against the Human Rights Chart.
I suggest that we do something to support Jan Wong and make it an event to loosen up the Bill 101, for our children and thires. Otherwise we will lose our Chinese culture forever on this piece of land.
作者: wu808    时间: 2006-9-26 13:05
全加拿大只有纽芬兰省官方语言是双语. 其余除魁省是法语外, 都是英语.
"任何政府机关拒绝用英语服务的是违反联邦法的！" 是对联邦政府机构不是省政府机构.
如果你去一些魁省政府机构的网站, 许多官方文件都是法语的. 有的有英文解释, 有的根本没有.
如果移民打算在魁省长期住下去, 那么就要学法语,至少一些日常生活的用语并且了解一些基本的文化. 否则就连BUS司机的工作都不容易找. 除非象redneck说的:
........ 与魁北克文化斗争到底！通过我们的努力，使中文成为魁北克唯一官方语言的日子一定会到来！

Post by vincent_s
大哥，官方语言是法语和英语。。。。
任何政府机关拒绝用英语服务的是违反联邦法的！
作者: tz2002    时间: 2006-9-26 19:52
感觉她好棒。
能在意识形态领域引发这么的波澜，比投资10个亿还了不起。
那天收音机节目，所有打进去电话的人都同声谴责她的不是，最后是一个牙买加哥儿们，说，她说的是事实。你们生气，是因为她说的是真的。
我个人确实不认为枪手是因为种族歧视的不满，觉得他是黑色的。
但是还是要为黄叫好，她的勇气。还读过她那篇装成一个打扫卫生的大妈的记实，发表以后，每个被打扫的家庭都大叫，上帝啊，她来过了。
作者: tz2002    时间: 2006-9-26 19:53
Post by where to go
Finally, somebody, a Chinese woman stands up and finger points the weakness of French purifying. I am tired of Bill 101. Yes, I have no problem to learn a new language, but don't force me to accept a culture. We all have the freedom and right to choose to do something. The Bill 101 absolutely is against the Human Rights Chart.
I suggest that we do something to support Jan Wong and make it an event to loosen up the Bill 101, for our children and thires. Otherwise we will lose our Chinese culture forever on this piece of land.

同意同意
作者: xhu    时间: 2006-9-27 15:12
So objective! Why QUebec and Canada media always wear this kind of colored glass to punched different opinions. If it was treated by Chinese media, it should be a more reasonable, then probably some kind of punch instead of pure ugly humor to laugh at ethnicity. Pure Canadian kind of ugly humor, you can find them everywhere in Canadian media (including Quebec), TV, radio, everything and everything. Maybe majority think it is humorous, but minorities will not accept it, (fortune cookie and World war II Japanese and hooked nose Jewish). Complete support Jan Wong and think she is heroic. Also thinks white men (and women) don't know what is like to be subjective.
作者: q2006c    时间: 2006-9-27 19:04
For Your Information -> 加国总理PK华裔记者：言论交锋枪击案
作者: xyz1966    时间: 2006-9-27 19:23
I have read many articles written by Jan Wong on China. I disagree with almost all conclusions she presented because 她的结论是错的. 误导, 不负责任, 侮辱 China.
作者: q2006c    时间: 2006-9-27 19:35
Post by xyz1966
她的结论是错的. 误导, 不负责任, 侮辱 China.
她写的关于中国的问题是以一个西方人的观点去看去写的，而受了多年中国教育的中国人看了可能不舒服。就像前几个月CBC关于中国的电视节目，他们拍了一些拆迁的破烂镜头，这里的中国人看了以后就受不了。但我觉得CBC拍的没错，如果说CBC错了，那就是他们没有到CCTV借一些中国开革开放到处莺歌燕舞的镜头。
作者: Junephoenix    时间: 2006-9-27 20:55
标题: 致 7 君子
今天看GAZZETTE 读者来信一栏，很有趣。两封信起因都是那个 JAN WONG 写了一篇东西评论DOWSON 枪击案。

首先，某华裔加人团体领袖要求报纸道歉，因为他们登漫画讽刺 JAN WONG 的华裔身份。

第二封，7君子联名上书，却是要求 JAN WONG 道歉了。他们都是华裔魁北克人，声称热爱蒙特利尔，JAN WONG 的文章受害了他们的感情等等。

我想告诉 7 君子，其他人，魁北瓜，白人，犹太人，印巴人。。。他们不是弱智，他们不会因为某族群一个人的言行来放大到整个团体。就事论事，你们不必急火火跳出来表明立场划清界线。
作者: Junephoenix    时间: 2006-9-27 22:16
标题: 请版主不要自作聪明
请版主不要自作聪明。我的帖子是独立发的，不知道还有这个大讨论，也不想附和参加。麻烦给我挪到原位去！！！
作者: newpartner88    时间: 2006-9-27 22:46
Post by Junephoenix
今天看GAZZETTE 读者来信一栏，很有趣。两封信起因都是那个 JAN WONG 写了一篇东西评论DOWSON 枪击案。

首先，某华裔加人团体领袖要求报纸道歉，因为他们登漫画讽刺 JAN WONG 的华裔身份。

第二封，7君子联名上书，却是要求 JAN WONG 道歉了。他们都是华裔魁北克人，声称热爱蒙特利尔，JAN WONG 的文章受害了他们的感情等等。

我想告诉 7 君子，其他人，魁北瓜，白人，犹太人，印巴人。。。他们不是弱智，他们不会因为某族群一个人的言行来放大到整个团体。就事论事，你们不必急火火跳出来表明立场划清界线。

我相信JAN WONG同样热爱蒙特利尔,甚至有过之

JAN WONG是向QUEBEC可恶的纯种文化发起攻击

这七君子认为自己是QUEBEC纯种之一:p
作者: jem'enfous2    时间: 2006-9-28 14:39
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-28 20:36
标题: STRONGLY SUPPORT YOUR ARTICLE OF 'Get under the desk'
Dear Madam Jan Wong (jwong@globeandmail.ca):

I am strongly supporting your article of 'Get under the desk' , According my personal life experience, it's not supprised that both minister (federal and provincial) got angry from your article since you appointed the main issue of Canadian society today.

By the fact, if the time I  didn't control myself, and tried to believe government and legal justice system would give me back fair justice in some day; those similar cases would happen on me at year 1997 as same as like they did--once when my late wife killed by Montreal General Hospital, and I immolated by MUC Police also legal and justice system...

Ten years passed away, I am non stopped keep knocking different doors, but till today, I even didn't get one single justice done, instead my situation became the worst, which the system didn't give me a chance to rebuild up my life from what they destroyed of my life...

Since I am Chinese, no matter many years I am already became a Canadian citizen, which they never counted I am as a Canadian--because I don't know how to speak French instead I keep speak English to communicate with, which it made my situation even more worse...

Below you may find the letter I sent to Quebec Prime Minister Jean Charest, which also have some links you may learn more about what is realy going on with my life.

Best regards,

Peter Zhenguo Pan
___________________________________________________________________

LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER OF QUEBEC, July 5th 2006
http://www.sinomontreal.ca/bbs/showthread.php?t=343419
  
Dear Mr. Jean Charest:

I wrote a letter to you was 1997 asking for help when you were joining with federal election, and I received your office response letter on June 4th 1997. Unfortunately, my situation is getting the worst only, which you would experience from my summary of being a victim of crime and injustice.

I am writing to you again since you are our prime minister, and I would like you to know what the government system is treated his own citizen by the fact the citizen was contributed in order to help MUC Police to protect the public, which the system destroyed my family and my life giving the fact that even those criminals never punished; instead:

The criminals succeeded to illegally took over my business, run my business for over three years, and even surprisingly replaced my position to get compensation from my landlord to move out my business from my premise; furthermore to hidden my assets away…

You might wondering what is MUC Police and Crown Prosecutor both department doing, which I had the same wonder as you do. However, even I had response letters from the chief of MUC Police (year 1998 and year 2002), which my complaint still rejected by MUC Police, Crown Prosecutor, both level of Human Rights, both level of minister of Justice…

The only department was willing to help me is Quebec Ombudsman; but because of powerless which you could experience from its investigator Me France Hudon-Szigeti’s replied on June 6th 2004 “I got your statement. I thank you for your good words and hope for the best for you and your family after such a "saga". I am sorry to have been unable to help you more.”

Since MUC Police claimed my situation became civil matter that I have to hire lawyer—by then my life even got worse, which you would experience from the summary of Nightmare. And I have to deal with the Quebec Bar, which became another nightmare…

In past of these ten years, I was being immolated several times by MUC Police. For example: I was accused as a killer in 1991 which I was at Van Horne park with my family that both MUC Police officers apologized to me by my request since they just made a fan on me;

I am being immolated in 1996 when MUC Police wants to use me to against my former boss and his brother in law since their mafia background; giving the result that I spent my own expenses forced Frankie’s restaurant went to bankruptcy in order to let the kitchen staffs able to keep the job;

But once I purchased the bankruptcy restaurant that I have to spent another expenses to buy another restaurant to relocate the bankruptcy restaurant Sawatdee since the pressure from the mafias which MUC Police even can’t protect me, and just simply advice me to relocate my business;

I am being immolated in 1997 since MUC Police want to use me to against Enza Martuccelli in order to protect public, giving the result that MUC Police made me lost my business complete, which they even never try to arrest her even she was under court arrest order;

I am being immolated in 1997 since MUC Police didn’t take further action with my business sales $35,000 fraud by my former employee Qingrui He (who went to cooperated with Enza Martuccelli), which even released his both accounts that banks already frozen by my request;

I am being immolated in 1997 since MUC Police refused to take any action to stop Enza Martuccelli and Qingrui He illegally ran my business, which was reported by my former lawyer Stephen Anges his assistant France St-Denis, giving result that they successfully run my business for three years till they moved away my business and hidden my assets away;

I am being immolated in 2000 since MUC Police refused to take any action stop Enza Martuccelli and Qingrui He since I discovered that they want to remove my restaurant and assets away from the premise, which made them successfully took my compensation from my landlord and hidden my assets away;

I am being immolated by MUC Police in year 2001 since the young police team wrongly kicked me out from my own premise even I am holding new valid lease from Bank of Montreal with five years lease and five years till year option renewal till June 30th year 2011; since MUC Police refused to correct they mistaken, it cast me lost a chance to turn over a new page in order to start a new life;

I am being immolated in 2003 since MUC Police took the wrong impression of the hit & ran case, giving the result that MUC Police even never ask who did it to my car, which I had to face with Municipal court even one of the police officer punched me (I had a proof by the doctor that took away from me by the court), and I lost my car also I had to pay the fine;

I am being immolated in 2005 since MUC Police refused to take my complaint even I did by my own and I found both criminals—Enza Martuccelli and Qinrui He especially I found my assets that Qingrui He used it for his new opened restaurant.

I being immolated in 2004 again since MUC Police wrongly made the armed aggression case became hit & ran; giving a result that till today my car insurance company still refused to pay my damages…

I am being immolated by civil court system:

(500-32-015727-961)—Small Claim Court. Beginning of November 1996, Enza and He both showed up at the small claim court as witnesses to state a perjury to against Mr. Pan’s company MCY for the case Enza Martuccelli used MCY signed a contract of without Mr. Pan knowing defrauded Atllah Charles

(500-05-2818-970)—Superior Court. September 27th 1996 MUC police arrested Qingrui He and pressed a charge on him for fraud (33-960927-033). Try to get away MUC police fraud charges, without any proofs Enza and He both fabricated a civil case—the case never continued up to today) claiming $400,000 damages from Mr. Pan plus equal shares from Mr. Pan’s company MCY. MUC police informed Mr. Pan don’t have to worry since it became a strong evidence to prove Enza and He both working together against Mr. Pan.

(500-02-084866-008—withdrawal on November 7th 2000)—Quebec Superior Court. April 14th 2000, Qingrui He started a new case to claim that He became 100% legal owner with Mr. Pan’s Sawatdee restaurant since He already run three years of Mr. Pan’s Sawatdee restaurant business, which He never continue the first case (500-05-028181-970—never continued up to today) that they were claim three of us has equal shares with Mr. Pan’s company.

(500-02-075939-996)—Quebec Superior Court. Year 2000, Caverhill Learmount Inc. (Mr. Pan’s landlord) wants to sell the building, since the buyer doesn’t want have restaurant, by then Qingrui He illegally took a position as defendant Mr. Pan’s company MCY to get compensation from Caverhill Learmount Inc. By then He moved Mr. Pan’s restaurant away and hidden Mr. Pan’s assets away. On November 7th 2000, Qingrui He withdrawal the case (500-02-084866-008) since He already made Mr. Pan’s assets illegally belong to him by the fact.

(500-05-046311-989)—Quebec Superior Court. The case was rejected since Mr. Pan no longer to have a lawyer, which appeal also failed since Mr. Pan doesn’t understand the legal procedures. But this case is concern his late wife Mrs. Pan (Cuiqin Ren) who killed by the hospital and the doctor with article 99, which Mr. Pan even never informed by the hospital and the doctor.

(500-17-020905-041)—Quebec Superior Court. The case was rejected on October 2004, and appeal also failed on February 2005. But it’s really unfair because Mr. Pan’s lawyer involved with malpractice that the case even didn’t registered with Mr. Pan his personal name, and the company his lawyer used was invalid, which easily for the bank kicked out Mr. Pan’s case.

Main point with this case was: since MUC Police wrongly kicked Mr. Pan out of his premise on year 2001 that Mr. Pan have a new lease from June 1st 2001 till June 30th 2006 plus five years option renewal, which caused Mr. Pan lost $6,000 rental advanced deposit, all the renovation cost, plus the shipment sent from Thailand all illegally took over by Bank of Montreal since MUC Police didn’t allow Mr. Pan take out anything from his premise—by the fact that MUC Police even refused to correct the mistaken they created to Mr. Pan.

For more information, documentation and evidences you may directly contact with me that mentioned on the letter head, which you may also be able to contact with my supporter Me France Hudon-Szigeti (investigator 514 873-2132) at Quebec Ombudsman, and MUC Police Crime Division detective Madam Brigitte Barabe (514 280-2716).

I just recently spoken with the first crown prosecutor Me Jean Denis (514 939-2703) who believed was miscommunication which created me became a victim of the crime and injustice; and he convinced me again to forget the whole thing and restart a new life again. But how since no any department who willing to take the responsibilities, which my last hope was also destroyed by the young team of MUC Police?!

As you are our prime minister, did you accept the case went in this way since the criminals even never punished, instead the citizen who contributed for the public who life is totally destroyed… By then who else will after me willing to help the system in order to protect the public? It’s so easy for the government workers tells his citizen to just forget the whole thing, but did they even thought in this way this family’s whole life are totally ruined?!

Truly yours,

___________________
Peter Zhenguo Pan
__________________________________________________________________

To Canadian Judicial Council, July 5th 2006

Dear Madam/Sir:

I referred by Minister of Justice du Quebec concern I being immolated by legal and justice system, which you may find my summary I sent to the Quebec Chief Crown Prosecutor Department, and I also sent to your department by e-mail on
Since I didn’t get any response, now I resend it by fax, which also includes support letter from Chinese Family Services of Greater Montreal, and the referral letter from Minister of Justice du Quebec.

For more information, documentation and evidences you may directly contact with me that mentioned on the letter head, which you may also be able to contact with my supporter Me France Hudon-Szigeti (investigator 514 873-2132) at Quebec Ombudsman, and MUC Police Crime Division detective Madam Brigitte Barabe (514 280-2716).

I didn’t have those judge’ names since all these cases was handling by my lawyers; but I do have these case numbers:

(500-05-046311-989)—Quebec Superior Court. The case was rejected since Mr. Pan no longer to have a lawyer, which appeal also failed since Mr. Pan doesn’t understand the legal procedures. But this case is concern his late wife Mrs. Pan (Cuiqin Ren) who killed by the hospital and the doctor with article 99, which Mr. Pan even never informed by the hospital and the doctor.

(500-17-020905-041)—Quebec Superior Court. The case was rejected on October 2004, and appeal also failed on February 2005. But it’s really unfair because Mr. Pan’s lawyer involved with malpractice that the case even didn’t registered with Mr. Pan his personal name, and the company his lawyer used was invalid, which easily for the bank kicked out Mr. Pan’s case.

Main point with this case was: since MUC Police wrongly kicked Mr. Pan out of his premise on year 2001 that Mr. Pan have a new lease from June 1st 2001 till June 30th 2006 plus five years option renewal, which caused Mr. Pan lost $6,000 rental advanced deposit, all the renovation cost, plus the shipment sent from Thailand all illegally took over by Bank of Montreal since MUC Police didn’t allow Mr. Pan take out anything from his premise—by the fact that MUC Police even refused to correct the mistaken they created to Mr. Pan.

Above cases please read detail from my summary, also NIGHTMARE EXPERIENCE WITH MY LAWYERS.

Looking forward to hear.

Truly yours,

___________________
Peter Zhenguo Pan
____________________________________________________________

To Judges of Superior Court, July 5th 2006

Dear Madam/Sir:

I referred by Minister of Justice du Quebec concern I being immolated by legal and justice system, which you may find my summary I sent to the Quebec Chief Crown Prosecutor Department, and I also sent to your department by e-mail on the June 25th 2006 by the address of: communications.justice@justice.gouv.qc.ca.

Since I didn’t get any response, now I resend it by fax, which also includes support letter from Chinese Family Services of Greater Montreal, and the referral letter from Minister of Justice du Quebec.

For more information, documentation and evidences you may directly contact with me that mentioned on the letter head, which you may also be able to contact with my supporter Me France Hudon-Szigeti (investigator 514 873-2132) at Quebec Ombudsman, and MUC Police Crime Division detective Madam Brigitte Barabe (514 280-2716).

I didn’t have those judge’ names since all these cases was handling by my lawyers; but I do have these case numbers:

(500-32-015727-961)—Small Claim Court. Beginning of November 1996, Enza and He both showed up at the small claim court as witnesses to state a perjury to against Mr. Pan’s company MCY for the case Enza Martuccelli used MCY signed a contract of without Mr. Pan knowing defrauded Atllah Charles

(500-05-2818-970)—Quebec Superior Court. September 27th 1996 MUC police arrested Qingrui He and pressed a charge on him for fraud (33-960927-033). Try to get away MUC police fraud charges, without any proofs Enza and He both fabricated a civil case—the case never continued up to today) claiming $400,000 damages from Mr. Pan plus equal shares from Mr. Pan’s company MCY. MUC police informed Mr. Pan don’t have to worry since it became a strong evidence to prove Enza and He both working together against Mr. Pan.

(500-02-084866-008—withdrawal on November 7th 2000)—Quebec Superior Court. April 14th 2000, Qingrui He started a new case to claim that He became 100% legal owner with Mr. Pan’s Sawatdee restaurant since He already run three years of Mr. Pan’s Sawatdee restaurant business, which He never continue the first case (500-05-028181-970—never continued up to today) that they were claim three of us has equal shares with Mr. Pan’s company.

(500-02-075939-996)—Quebec Superior Court. Year 2000, Caverhill Learmount Inc. (Mr. Pan’s landlord) wants to sell the building, since the buyer doesn’t want have restaurant, by then Qingrui He illegally took a position as defendant Mr. Pan’s company MCY to get compensation from Caverhill Learmount Inc. By then He moved Mr. Pan’s restaurant away and hidden Mr. Pan’s assets away. On November 7th 2000, Qingrui He withdrawal the case (500-02-084866-008) since He already made Mr. Pan’s assets illegally belong to him by the fact.

Above cases please read detail from my summary; looking forward to hear from you.

Truly yours,

___________________
Peter Zhenguo Pan


LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER OF QUEBEC & ETC.
http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=343415

Support letters sent from Chinese Family Service of Greater Montreal addressed a support letter to Mr. Pan by the director Me May Chiu; Action Autonomie support letter addressed to Mr. Pan by the Defense of rights counselor Mr. Kevin Boire; and Quebec Ombudsman investigator Me Hudon responded Mr. Pan’s statement to support him mentally and emotionally—web page for support letter: (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=156601)


个人不幸经历参考: SUMMARY OF BEING A VISTIM OF CRIME AND IMJUSTICE
http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=336895

[Give Me Justice and My Life Back! To Our Canadian Society and Politicians] (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=87429)

DEATH & NOODLES (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=75582)

NIGHTMARE (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=63353)


Medical Error & Discrimination (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=46356)


Medical Treatment--personal experienced (http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=68325)

关于我泰餐馆sawatdee诈骗案及其它的事实真相 （一）--续告全加及海外华人同胞声援书[url="http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=80499"]http://www.sinoquebec.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=80499[/url]
作者: 金圣叹    时间: 2006-9-28 23:58
华裔能发表头条文章，当然支持，我举双腿赞成。

至于观点，不强求统一啦，不过说得不好听一点，黄姑娘的文章中所表现出来的个人价值观，离加拿大人的价值观相去甚远，所以被加拿大人竖中指妈×，乃不可避免之事。



我曾浏览上海人论坛，见有外地人开贴高呼－－取消上海话！唯一的感觉，那人五行欠骂。就你一头外地民工，说一句“我听不懂上海话”，就要让两千两百万以自己语言为自豪的上海人学你家乡话？



听不懂上海话的人，在上海的竞争力当然会有所降低，但一个在上海出生而且从来没有离开过上海的民工后代，居然听不懂上海话，居然为语不好的问题而到外滩用冲锋枪扫射行人！这种个别的现象无须解释，百年不遇的疯人一个，随他疯去了就算了，不值一提。



而黄姑娘等同于人为把枪杀无辜和听不懂上海话作为因果强行捆绑在一起，上海人当然愤怒。世界上说上海话的城市有且仅有一个，不习惯的话为什么你不离开？不离开之余还偏偏要求上海人废除上海话？因为你的价值观和上海人貌合神离，连上海人标志之一的上海话你都没有共鸣，动辄说铲除上海文化。那您赖死住在上海托×呀？

再说一遍，世界上不说上海话的地方千千万万，你何必专门跑到上海来大声疾呼我不喜欢上海话、更不喜欢上海文化？拜托，不喜欢就走，别磨蹭。你走了，你不用改，上海不用改。就是因为你在才出问题，两千两百万人不会因为你而文化洗牌，而你又年纪太大学不会语言、融不入文化，那还赖在这里互相伤害，玩伤痕文学呀你？

好了黄姑娘，上海如此，加拿大也如此，道理也是一样的。上海人要骂你，换了加拿大人，也会用各种动词变位问候你。

至于哈帕哥哥拍桌子要黄妹妹道歉，本人觉得，这正是加拿大言论自由的最好体现。黄妹妹随便喷×，骂完了一身爽，钻进冰箱喝可乐去了，难道哈帕大哥就不能以个人名义也来发泄一通、喷×一通？非得要可怜的、害羞的哈帕口里塞条毛巾，躲在柴房里无声抽泣才算言论自由？

所有的人都是以个人名义妈×黄姑娘罢了，这就是言论，这就是自由。

黄姑娘没有失踪，没有被人用铁丝穿过琵琶骨，没有不正常死亡，罪名不是“×××分子”，死因不是自焚，至今还在喝可乐。如果说这都还不是言论自由，看来你只能移民去北朝鲜了。
作者: wu808    时间: 2006-9-29 05:28
如果我没有理解错的话, BILL 101 在孩子教育方面, 只是对移民的家庭的孩子而言, 对当地的英裔好象没有这个限制.
对移民来说, 移民到魁北克的目的是什么? 如果是做为跳板, 那么就没有资格发怨言. 你不能享受免费的教育, 然后离开而大骂人家. 如果是加拿大移民, 你完全可以挑选说英语的地方. 如果是魁北克移民, 那么你的家庭至少有一人接受了法语的教育. 由于是魁北克移民, 如果不接受官方语言的法语教育, 从哪方面都说不过去. 并且对孩子将来的在当地的发展也不好. 当然也有一些特殊情况, 但是极少数.
据我所知, 许多华人的家庭在孩子教育方面对BILL 101抱怨的不是很多. 一般都是让孩子先去法语的小学和中学, 然后去英语的COLLEGE. 如果条件好一些, 还送孩子去中文学校. 所以大多数华人子女, 都能使用三种语言. 当然对那些不准备长期在魁北克住下来的人另论.

一般英裔的子女都能掌握很好的英语和法语. 但是法裔的子女不一定能掌握很好的英语, 特别是那些没有英语服务的城市/镇.

英裔的子女能掌握很好的法语, 与法语是官方语言有很大关系. 只要在魁北克如果不会法语, 除极少数情况外, 永远不能提升. 并且有时找工作都困难.
关于移民被歧视是任何人都不能否认的事实. 怎么办, 只有靠自己争取, 靠别人没有用. 空喊口号也没有用. 只有参政和其它重要的位置--法官, 律师, 政府官等. 新移民是不可能的(特殊的除外), 只有靠下一代. 如果他们不会官方语言又如何取得这些位置. 现在联邦议院有几个华裔. 希望更多的华裔成为省或邦议议员.

BILL 101一定会修改, 但不是在孩子教育方面(孩子方面以放宽), 而是在其他方面. 它已经限制魁北克在北美的发展. 由于魁独和BILL 101使一些大公司离开MONTREAL而去了TORONTO.

JAN WONG的观点非常不理智. BILL 从小在魁北克长大而不会法语, 即使是上的英语学校, 不会法语也是不可思意的事情. 除非他自己把自己排斥在这个社会之外. 那个穆斯林家伙, 歧视妇女, 典型穆斯林的教育结果. 那个前苏联的人, 更是变态, 如果每个人要求的目的没有达到, 是否就杀人? 现在问一下JAN WONG, 那个漫画应该是对你侮辱, 你是否要采取象那三个人的行动?
如果JAN WONG不同枪击事件联系一起反对BILL 101, 反对那个纯羊毛, 应该有许多人支持. 现在同枪击时间联系一起, 如果大家公开都支持, 是否让别人认为移民都是潜在的枪手?

虽然JAN WONG的观点非常不理智, 但是也不要象那7个人, 声明什么. 如果反对, 自己不公开支持就行了, 何必让别人认为华人窝里斗?

关于法语和上海话, 除非上海想要独立, 而使上海话成为官方语言, 否则没有可比性.
在上海, 如果逼小孩学上海话, 那么完全可以起诉并且100%赢. 如果你是家长, 宁愿让孩子放弃学普通话而只学上海话? 如果有, 这样的家长一定疯了.

Post by lunala_
彻底服了，金爷，偶像啊。。。有玉照么，改明签明星照莫忘我一份。


不过金爷那魁北克的法语和上海人的上海话比较有所不妥，至少上海学校里头并不逼着小孩子一定要学会说上海话，另外上海话在年轻一代中，由于普通话的普及也有被放轻之势。因此，上海话是随着周边环境在趋向普通话方向发展，符合整个经济发展要求。但这里，法语和周边的英文环境格格不入，而且也由于法语环境的强制性，导致montreal很多大学的外省学生在毕业后也难以留下以及有良好的发展，这个从某种角度压制了montreal的新鲜血液的输入，也就是呈现死水一潭的趋势。而能够维持法语互济的也就是法国和部分的中东北非国家，这些国家的经济也是不怎么地的一个样子。城市的发展依赖的不仅仅只是本地人口，而且还得有外地人口啊。
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-29 08:13
可能你比较好运，在这儿一帆风顺，在向你祝贺的同时冒昧说一句－－站着说话不腰疼，没尝过黄连的不知黄连的苦。从我个人的不平遭遇及连日来一些和我有相同不平遭遇的人士与我联络希望通过我的经验教训为他们提供信息建议使他们走出困境来看，这已经不是个别的现象而是在加国确实存在的社会问题。

那么，其中某些人因无法摆脱困境，在绝望之际孤注一掷，那会成为什么样的后果？不必瞒你，要不是放不下我当时尚未成年的女儿，本人在1997 年便差点走上了这条不归路。。。其实 JAN WONG 并没有站在凶手的立场上为其鸣冤叫屈，而是透过三次枪杀案进行分析，希望引起加国、魁省政府及加国社会的警觉，从而设法尽可能令少数民族能获得公正的对待。

你也是加国少数族裔的其中的一员，今天你的飞黄腾达不一定代表今后便一帆风顺；即便如此，你能保证你的家人及后代从此一帆风顺？亡羊补牢，为时未晚。相信在座支持 JAN WONG 的，包括 JAN WONG 本人，没有人支持亡杀无辜的。在此冒昧，还望海涵。

既然你尚未阅读过 JAN WANG 的 文章， 建议你阅读以后再发表你的观点：
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060915.wxshooting-main16/BNStory/National


Post by vipkj
没看文章,不知道细节.但是在这个魁北克人民和加拿大人民都很沉痛的时候,用没有证据的东西来指责当地社会,显然是时机不妥,并且没有针对主要矛盾.如果你的孩子被杀,有人指责你没有给凶手创造一个好的环境,你不抽死他才怪呢.
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-29 08:16
标题: 'Get under the desk'
'Get under the desk'

JAN WONG

From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Montreal — At 12:35 p.m. on Wednesday, Pina Salvaggio got herself a cup of coffee, took out her bag lunch and sat down in her Dawson College office to correct some homework. “All of a sudden, I heard: bang, bang, bang. I immediately thought gunshots.”

Ms. Salvaggio looked out her office, and saw students milling around. “It's a joke,” one of them told her. She returned to her office and this time closed her door. Then she heard more shots, many this time, and she knew. She opened her door, saw two students standing in the hall, and yanked them into her office.

“Get under the desk,” she ordered. Ms. Salvaggio phoned Dawson security. No answer. And then she lost it. Like an extraordinary number of faculty at this university-preparatory college in Montreal, she had a child studying there, too.

“My son is out there,” she wailed, as tears streamed down her face. At 12:45 p.m., Ms. Salvaggio's son, Alexander Matthew, was just getting out of class. He took the stairs down to ground level. He had his head phones on and was listening to Sound Garden, a rock band. That's why he was quite startled when four or five girls burst into the stairwell screaming and crying. One of them screamed, “I've been shot.”

“I thought they were joking,” said Alex, 19. “Then I noticed she was bleeding around the waist.”

The girls ran back into the hallway. Still not comprehending, Alex followed them. A staff member, whose office was across from the stairwell, heard the commotion and came out to scold them. “What the hell are you guys doing?”

“I've been shot,” the girl screamed. “Call an ambulance.”

Stunned, Alex began walking toward the atrium, inside the ground-floor cafeteria. Students were running from there as fast as they could. He inched closer.

“I saw two policemen,” he said. “They must have just arrived. They had their guns drawn.”

Cara Genest, 17, didn't hear anything either. She was standing near the atrium when other students stampeded past, shouting to get out. She ran outside, and saw someone lying in a pool of blood.

Upstairs, in another cafeteria, her friend, Erin Neilson, 18, heard the gunshots. “Somebody shouted, ‘Get out! Get out!' Everyone just got up and bolted for the door.”

This week, Montrealers were asking: Why us? Youths elsewhere in Canada are addicted to violent video games. Youths elsewhere in Canada live in soul-less suburbs. Youths elsewhere are alienated and into Goth culture. Yet while there have been similar high-school tragedies, all three rampages at Canadian postsecondary institutions occurred here, not in Toronto, or Vancouver or Halifax or Calgary.

“A lot of people are saying: Why does this always happen in Quebec?” says Jay Bryan, a business columnist for the Montreal Gazette, the city's only English-language daily. “Three doesn't mean anything. But three out of three in Quebec means something.”

What many outsiders don't realize is how alienating the decades-long linguistic struggle has been in the once-cosmopolitan city. It hasn't just taken a toll on long-time anglophones, it's affected immigrants, too. To be sure, the shootings in all three cases were carried out by mentally disturbed individuals. But what is also true is that in all three cases, the perpetrator was not pure laine, the argot for a “pure” francophone. Elsewhere, to talk of racial “purity” is repugnant. Not in Quebec.

In 1989, Marc Lepine shot and killed 14 women and wounded 13 others at the University of Montreal's École Polytechnique. He was a francophone, but in the eyes of pure laine Quebeckers, he was not one of them, and would never be. He was only half French-Canadian. He was also half Algerian, a Muslim, and his name was Gamil Gharbi. Seven years earlier, after the Canadian Armed Forces rejected his application under that name, he legally changed his name to Marc Lepine.

Valery Fabrikant, an engineering professor, was an immigrant from Russia. In 1992, he shot four colleagues and wounded one other at Concordia University's faculty of engineering after learning he would not be granted tenure.

This week's killer, Kimveer Gill, was, like Marc Lepine, Canadian-born and 25. On his blog, he described himself as of “Indian” origin. (In their press conference, however, the police repeatedly referred to Mr. Gill as of “Canadian” origin.)

It isn't known when Mr. Gill's family arrived in Canada. But he attended English elementary and high schools in Montreal. That means he wasn't a first-generation Canadian. Under the restrictions of Bill 101, the province's infamous language law, that means at least one of his parents must have been educated in English elementary or high schools in Canada.To be sure, Mr. Lepine hated women, Mr. Fabrikant hated his engineering colleagues and Mr. Gill hated everyone. But all of them had been marginalized, in a society that valued pure laine.

Mr. Gill, by all accounts a loner, was a high-school dropout who lived in his parent's basement in suburban Laval. He was 6 foot 1 with light skin, dark hair shaved at the sides and a penchant for all-black outfits. He had no job, but he owned a car, and he bought three expensive guns, including the Beretta, which retails for about $800 (U.S.).

In an on-line journal nine months earlier, he wrote that the day he planned to seek revenge would be grey. “A light drizzle will be starting up,” he wrote.

On Wednesday, it rained in Montreal. Mr. Gill donned black combat boots and a black Matrix-style trench coat, and drove his black Pontiac Sunfire downtown. He parked it on Wood Avenue, and pulled three guns from the trunk. He looked through the scope of one, and aimed it at a group of boys. They didn't run, and he didn't fire. Later, one of the teens said he didn't think the gun was real.

He walked past the Dawson daycare centre, which has 48 toddlers, and along de Maisonneuve. Students were smoking outside the main entrance. Mr. Gill, who did not smoke, shot two of them. Then he went inside, through a double set of glass doors, and straight ahead to the atrium. It was lunch time. He began shooting.

Richmond Lam, a photography student at Dawson, was eating a falafel sandwich at the Alexis-Nihon shopping plaza across from the college when students began running in. He went to the window, and saw people ducking for cover. He spotted someone bleeding on the ground.

Mr. Lam, who is 31, grabbed his cameras and ran to the street. He arrived just as the two police officers were running in. He took a few photographs before a Dawson staff member pushed him back. “Go back in the building!” the staffer ordered.

Maro Barcarolo and Denis Côté, the police officers, were at Dawson on a routine call, possibly drug-related. They followed Mr. Gill inside the cafeteria. He had been shooting a Beretta CX4 Storm 9 mm semi-automatic. In minutes, he had shot 18 people. One was a 48-year-old Dawson plant-facilities worker, who hasn't been identified, who was trying to shelter a student. Another was a student named Anastasia De Sousa.

Mr. Gill shot her. Stacy, as her friends call her, collapsed. James Santos, a fellow student and friend, tried to drag her behind a serving area. Stacy moaned. “Is she alive?” the killer asked James, who is 17.

“He said, ‘Today is the day she's going to die,” James told the French-language daily, Le Journal de Montreal. Then the killer pumped more bullets into her. Upstairs, Ms. Salvaggio heard the shots. Because the atrium allows noise to float to the top floors, she thought the killer was right outside her office. The female student had taken refuge under one desk. She was silent. The boy student sat, on the ground, his back against the door. He was apparently trying to protect the two females. If the killer tried to get in, he would hold the door shut.

Weeping, and sitting under her desk, Ms. Salvaggio feared she might not get through to 911. But she had faith in her office mate, a calm, efficient teacher whose son is now at the University of Ottawa. Ms. Salvaggio called her colleague at home. “They're shooting here!” she screamed. “Call the police! My son is in the building.”

Tears streaming down her face, she told the students they should call their parents. Then she opened her laptop and tried to figure out her son's Wednesday schedule. At 1:49 p.m., an e-mail popped up from one of her students. “Miss,” it read. “They're shooting. Do we still have the 2 p.m. class?”

Meanwhile, Ms. Salvaggio's colleague, who asked not to be named, dialled 911. At 12:51 p.m., 911 was jammed. She was put on hold for two minutes — she knows because she watched the timer on her phone — and then the operator transferred her — and disconnected her. She redialled and screamed, “There's a gunman at Dawson College!” Then she called Ms. Salvaggio back and said, “Turn off the lights and close the blinds.”

Two floors below, Alex was craning his neck, trying to figure out why everyone was tearing out of the cafeteria. He saw officers Barcarolo and Côté train their guns on something. “That's when I decided it was a smart idea to move back from there.”

Someone slapped him on the back. “Hey,” said a classmate he knows only as Shane. He had just come out of the washroom, and was heading for the cafeteria. Teens have always tuned out the rest of the world, but now they have electronic help. The Dawson College shootings may be the first one in which many students remained clueless a painfully long time because they were listening to iPods.

Alex realized Shane was wearing his iPod, and hadn't heard a thing. He caught up with his classmate, and pulled him back. When other students stampeded past them, they ran, too. Everyone ended up in a computer lab where a class was in disarray.

It wasn't the wisest refuge. For security reasons — security of the equipment — that is, the computer lab had three vast windows that looked onto the hall. All 50 or so students hit the floor, everyone that is, except for a couple of students who continued working at their computers. Were they Asian?

“Everyone asks me that,” says Alex laughing, much later, from the safety of his home. “One was a white guy who was writing an essay. The other was a black guy who was searching the Internet.”

His friend Shane had left several friends in the cafeteria. Still prone on the floor, he called his friend, Vince. “Dude, are you still there?” Shane asked. Alex didn't know what Vince said, but Shane replied, “Shit! Good luck!” And then, inexplicably, Shane left the relative safety of the computer room and went back to the atrium.

The two police officers had radioed for back-up before they went in. Now, with Mr. Gill trying to use Stacy's friend, James, as a human shield, Officer Barcarolo fired shots high, trying to draw the killer's attention. Mr. Gill hid behind some vending machines on the south side of the cafeteria. Then he pointed at two students, possibly planning to take them as hostages.

“He cried, ‘Come here, come here,'” said one unnamed witness, quoted in Le Journal. “The police officer screamed, “No, no, don't go there.” Officer Côté, who was crouching on the ground, took advantage of the momentary distraction and fired several shots. One of them hit the killer in the right arm. Mr. Gill then pointed his own gun under his chin, and shot himself.

At 1:15 p.m., someone opened the door of the computer lab. A hand poked through, pointing a gun. Everyone screamed. Then they saw the blue uniform. “Go outside and down the hall,” the police officer ordered. “Don't run.”

Alex and the students, meek and obedient, walked as fast as they could without actually breaking into a run. Outside, the SWAT team was just arriving. “Go, go, go! Get out of here!” the police ordered. The students broke into the run of their lives. Once 15 blocks from Dawson, Alex tried to remember his mother's Wednesday schedule. He thought she was home. He called and left a message: “I'm fine. Don't go to school.”

Upstairs, Ms. Salvaggio called her colleague again. “Call the police!” she screamed. “They're on their way,” her colleague said. “Don't move.”

The young woman under the desk finally opened her mouth. “Miss, I think we should all be quiet. And I think he should move away from the door,” she said quietly, pointing at the boy student who was sitting with his back to the door.

The shooting continued. Suddenly there was silence. Ms. Salvaggio peeked out her door. She saw a policeman in the hall and stepped out.

“Get back in, ma'am,” he told her. The police were going from room to room, evacuating each, one at a time. They weren't sure if Mr. Gill had any accomplices. When Ms. Salvaggio finally got the all-clear, she told the students, whose names she never got, to leave. Normally a chic woman, Ms. Salvaggio looked a wreck. She realized she should have been helping the students. Instead, they were helping her.

“Miss, do you want me to carry your purse?” the boy inquired as they were leaving her office.

“No, just run,” she said, wiping her tears. If Montrealers are asking, why Montreal, then Dawson students and teachers are asking, why Dawson? The college offers the equivalent of what, in the rest of Canada, would be Grade 12 and 13. It is a CEGEP, which stands for Collège d'Enseignement Général et Professionel. Unique to Quebec, it prepares those in their late teens and above for university and technical schools.

Mr. Gill had no known connection to Dawson. But it was one of only five English CEGEPs in the Montreal area. And Dawson was the biggest and most famous, with 10,000 full- and part-time students and 1,500 faculty and other staff. Also, it was downtown, which was cool, physically straddling Montreal and that bastion of English Quebec, Westmount. Mr. Gill, who said he had been bullied at school, despised his peers. But a high school was no longer the right demographic for him.

Dawson probably looked tempting. Unlike McGill University or Concordia or the University of Montreal, it is housed in one massive, interconnected building, one million square feet in area. At noon, the students congregate in only two places, an upstairs cafeteria and the ground-floor one, conveniently located just off the main entrance.

Mr. Gill's rampage has resonated through the anglophone community. Although Montreal is a big city, English-speaking Montreal is not. It is more like a small town, where everyone knows everyone else. And because English-speaking high-school graduates must go through the CEGEP system before university, Dawson funnels anglophone kids from across the city into one institution.

“I went to Dawson,” said Nancy Essebag, a waitress at Mesquite, a restaurant in the largely anglophone district of N.D.G. She was serving lunch to Ms. Salvaggio and her office mate yesterday before they headed to the college for their first post-rampage meeting.

“I go to Dawson now,” said Jeremy Cantor, 19, who overheard Ms. Essebag. He was lunching at another table. He hadn't been at school that day, but his dining companion, Joel Suss, had. Mr. Suss, 19, attends another CEGEP, but had gone to Dawson to hang out with friends. Like Erin Neilson, he had been in the upstairs cafeteria when the shootings happened.

At the Montreal Gazette newspaper, the news didn't break the traditional way, through a tip. Reporters found out after the daughter of an employee in reader sales called in hysterics. A Gazette reporter, Susan Semenak, wrote a first-person story about how she panicked when her 17-year-old daughter phoned to say she was barricaded behind tables.

At Lower Canada College, an English private school in N.D.G., the headmaster announced the news and told the students that anyone with a connection to Dawson could make calls. The majority of the students did. “We talked about it in class. One of my Grade 5 students has a friend at Dawson who had a gun pointed at his head,” said Laura Mesthene, a teacher at Roslin Elementary School in Westmount.

All Dawson kids interviewed on French media seemed able to speak passable French.

Still, some people felt hurt when the director general of Dawson held a press conference the day after the shootings, and answered questions only in French. “It's an English-language CEGEP, and some of the parents don't understand French,” one Dawson teacher said crossly.

After he committed suicide, Mr. Gill's lifeless, bloodied body was dragged onto the street. Mr. Lam, the photography student, shot pictures through the glass window of the shopping plaza's food court. Stacy's body remained inside the cafeteria for hours. Other students were variously shot in the chest, leg, arm, abdomen and the head. Two remain in critical condition, including one who is in a coma.

Alex's friend, Shane, and his buddies in the atrium cafeteria, all got out safely. Ms. Salvaggio was allowed to return to her office yesterday. In the classroom opposite her office, the desks were piled against the door. Ms. Salvaggio dumped out her coffee and retrieved her laptop. When the phone rang, she couldn't find it at first. It was still under her desk.

Mr. Lam's photographs were published in the Ottawa Citizen, the National Post and the Gazette this week.

The day after the shootings, he was taking pictures of tearful students dropping off flowers and cards. Erin and Cara came with their friends, Rebecca Watkins, 19, and Carleigh Moore, 18, carrying bouquets of red carnations.

“One of the girls shot, Lisa Mezzacappa, was in a few of my classes. She was shot in the leg. She's fine. I saw her on the news.”

Rebecca wasn't fine, though. “We go here every day, and yesterday we weren't safe.” She began to cry. Erin cried, too. The girls hugged each other. Mr. Lam took their pictures.

Later, he said his parents were proud that he had gotten his photos published. But they had also been extremely worried. “They said, ‘Next time, don't worry about taking photos.'”

Mr. Lam isn't sure how he feels about going back. “As a photography student interested in photojournalism, I couldn't have been in a better place. But this is my school. I'm still trying to make sense of everything.”
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-29 08:28
补充一句：当 QUEBEC OMBUDSMAN 在 2003 年要求蒙城华人服务中心为我伸冤提供帮助的时候，记得中心主任赵秀媚女士（其本人是律师出身）在为我发出声援信的同时表示“在华人社团中发生的冤案其实很多，但几乎没有一个获得公正对待的。因此，不仅仅是为了你，也为了我们华人，我们坚决支持你，并希望你能坚持下去，为你，也为我们华人社团向政府讨回公道。”
作者: skyrose    时间: 2006-9-29 14:14
标题: zt from wenxuecity
加拿大总理PK华裔女记者: 言论交锋枪击案 环球华报

var rm_host = "http://ad.yieldmanager.com";var rm_section_id = 7225;var rm_iframe_tags = 1;rmShowAd("300x250");无论在东方还是西方，言论自由都有个“度”的问题，不能想当然地满嘴跑骆驼。加拿大提倡文化多元不假，还堂而皇之地定为国策，但也不要过于天真地认为“知无不言，言者无罪”，一旦逾越出上面所提到的“度”，即便出於小记者之手，让总理不爽，也会“龙颜勃怒”的。

　　华裔记者黄明珍日前在供职的主流媒体《环球邮报》上，发表了有关道森校园枪杀案的长篇特写，没有人云亦云，而是通过自己的独立思考，提出尖锐的看法，认为之所以在魁北克省导致枪杀案连续发生，魁省文化难辞其咎。谈锋所向，对执政者无疑具有一定的杀伤力。结果在哈珀的直接“关照”下，其知名度迅速蹿红。

　　华裔女记者的一家之言

　　在加拿大，只有两份国家级的英文大报，一份是《国家邮报》（National Post），另一份就是《环球邮报》(Globe and Mail)了。所以能在这两份报纸上耍笔头子，应该是个有一定影响的活计，更何况作为一位华裔女士，不是想干就能干的。因此说，黄明珍(Jane Wong)能出任《环球邮报》的记者和专栏作家，想必也颇经过了一番努力，无论在文字写作上、还是新闻敏感上，都有独到的过人之处。不久前因道森学院 (Dawson College)枪击案发表专论，借题发挥抨击种族歧视，确实证明不是一个吃素的。

　　黄明珍的专稿标题是“Get under the desk”，通过对道森学院教师Pina Salvaggio等枪击案目击者的采访、对整个枪击事件的详细描写，引发了对这起枪击案评论。

　　在黄明珍的文章里，通过分析，指校园血案涉歧视移民，将枪手吉尔(Kimveer Gill)上周在道森学院(Dawson College)校园滥杀悲剧，归咎魁北克省民众没有善待移民。

　　《环球邮报》9月16日刊登了黄明珍的这篇文章，正是在这篇文章里她质疑说，蒙特利尔的居民们实在想不通，为何他们的城市17年来发生3宗校园枪击命案，包括1989年、1993年和2006年，这已经成为他们内心挥之不去的一个疑团。

　　黄明珍指出，在上述3次校园枪击命案中有一个共同的现象，主角枪手吉尔、莱皮纳(Marc Lepine)和法布里坎特(Valery Fabrikant)都不是纯法语人。这个现象被黄明珍敏感地抓到了，如此高的重复率不是偶然的。她因此推论，非法语裔觉得他们都在一个重视纯种（PURE LAINE ）的魁省社会被边缘化。据黄明珍的定义，“纯种”是指“纯正法裔”。

　　于是黄明珍这样写道：“许多局外人不知道，长达数十年的语言争拗──危害的不仅是英语裔老居民，也包括新移民，使这个曾经的国际化大都市孤立。不错，所有3宗枪击案出自精神有问题的人。但同样_实的是，这3宗案件的凶手，没有一人是纯法语裔。”

　　道森学院血案主嫌吉尔和其他两个凶犯一样，都不是土生土长的魁北克人，而是所谓“局外人”（outsider）。吉尔祖籍印度；1992年制造所谓“康考迪大学屠杀案”的法布里康（Valery Fabrikant），是来自前苏联的犹太移民，俄罗斯裔教授，他曾经多次申请终身职位被拒；1989年枪杀14名妇女后饮弹自尽的勒潘（Marc Lepine），原名加辟（Gamil Gharbi），是有阿尔及利亚血统的穆斯林青年，据说因为要求从军和报名大学工程系先后被拒绝，遂将自己的名字“法语化”。黄明珍认为，由于他们都不是正宗说法语人士，所以他们在生活中曾经遭受因为其宗源受到过不公平的对待。

　　“在世界其他地方，种族纯正的说法不上台面，但魁北克人却以此自豪。”黄明珍于是在该篇文章中暗示，魁独运动倡导语言和文化纯正，对这个地区规模不大的英语和移民人口造成负面影响。

　　哈珀动怒为哪般？

　　显然哈珀是个看书看报有学有术的联邦总理，几乎在第一时间就读到了黄明珍在《环球邮报》上发表的文章，看后非常不悦。

　　哈珀严厉批评道，黄明珍的言论显得有些“荒谬”，是“一派胡言毫无根据”。

　　他上周三（20日）致函《环球邮报》，对黄明珍的“长篇大论”表示关注，指责她将枪击事件与魁省省民对移民存在偏见相联系的言论偏颇、荒谬、不负责和无根据，对魁北克的判断充满个人偏见。

　　哈珀写道：“尽管作者有权表达她的意见，其言论显然荒谬、无根据。这不仅显示她完全不负责，如此归咎魁北克社会也是彻底的偏颇。”

　　哈珀说，上周校园枪击案件令所有魁北克人惊恐，吉尔走进道森学院，一路乱枪滥杀无辜，1名女学生迪苏莎(Anastasia De Sousa)死亡，另外20人受伤。他在信上表示：“这些行为应受无条件的道德谴责，不能假借社会与舆论的言词，掩饰偏见文字。”也就是说，人们应该无保留地谴责凶犯吉尔的犯罪行经，而不是利用这样一个事件，来推销所谓社会理论。

　　有学者分析说，黄明珍有关校园枪击案的言论之所以让哈珀不快，关键在于她把矛头指向魁省，而魁省现在则是联邦保守党冀望组建大多数政府的“命脉”。当然这种揣测有可能引起哈珀先生的再次动怒，所以特意加个引号。

　　国会要报馆道歉

　　国会中往往政见杂陈势力相左，为党派利益牵制在任政府。然而在对待小记者黄明珍的“失言”上，这次却罕见地表现出“步调一致”。

　　据悉，众议院所有政党无不支持哈珀的做法，都要求《环球邮报》道歉，并为此还通过一项有关动议。

　　9月19日，魁北克省长庄社理(Jean Charest)也致函《环球邮报》主编，称黄明珍的文章为“羞辱”，说她的议论“不成体统”和“有失体面”，为此感到“震惊和失望”。

　　在要求黄明珍向所有魁省人道歉之余，庄社理还写道，这篇文章“罔顾加拿大的美德及对魁省严重误解。”他还认为，这篇文章表露出对加拿大价值观的无知，以及对魁北克极端错误的理解。

　　不论统独倾向，各党派都不失时机地对黄明珍大加挞伐，魁北克政团（BLOC QUEBECOIS ）党魁杜锡也要求《环球邮报》道歉。魁人政团议员库图（Maka Kotto）本周一还在众院高声诵读了一则声明，严厉谴责和抨击黄明珍的文章，敦促保守党政府及其他反对党同心协力对付此事。

　　联邦自由党国会议员福科在众议院表态发言时，竟称黄明珍的文章是“垃圾”，此语一出，竟当场博得在座其他的自由党议员的击掌叫好。

　　蒙特利尔市圣占巴斯迪协会（SOCIETE ST. JEAN BAPTISTE DE MONTREAL ）已向魁省新闻管辖委会（QUEBEC PRESS COUNCIL ）入禀投诉黄明珍这篇文章。该协会主席多里安（J. DORION ）表示，“经历过上周三的枪击悲剧，在魁省的我们本应得到抚慰，并非面对这些不切实际的理论。环球邮报是加拿大最大及最有权威的报纸，省外及国外的人会以这文章来判断我们，教人怎能容忍。” 他的协会现在要求《环球邮报》和黄明珍道歉，并加以更正。

　　要有沟通渠道

　　其实自从联邦保守党执政以来，哈珀与媒体的关系一直紧绷，尤其对部长级阁员的采访上，先后有过多次规定，并且为此闹过不痛快。所以哈珀迁怒于报馆，不是自黄明珍始，也不会到黄明珍终。

　　《环球邮报》总编辑助理格里斯潘（Edward Greenspon）日前表示，该报不会在报纸上对事件发表正式评论，但在9月21日的内部社论上谈及该问题。

　　有关人士据此说，即便在信息化的时代，有时也需要及时沟通，因为沟通的缺失往往导致理解上的误会与摩擦。

　　族裔身份遭围剿

　　另有消息说，黄明珍在撰文分析魁省校园枪案之后，她收到不少email满纸秽语，有人甚至用种族歧视和性别歧视手法攻击她。

　　黄明珍还特别讲到蒙特利尔的法文报纸Le Devoir，该报近日刊登出一幅漫画，漫画中黄明珍被画成斜眼、戴眼镜，并一口爆牙，坐在中餐馆内打开幸运饼，里面有一句签语“小心101法案”，而那是魁省备受争议的语言法。

　　黄明珍就此表示，你可以攻击我的新闻风格或我的手法，但提到签饼，就是把我的种族扯进来。

　　但Le Devoir报社总编辑辩解说，黄明珍的父亲在蒙特利尔开过中餐馆，漫画只是提到她的家庭背景，并无任何种族歧视的意思，至于画中形象不过是漫画的夸张手法。

　　关于黄明珍

　　其实黄明珍对种族歧视的感觉由来已久，而且有著“切肤之痛”。

　　她的外祖父早年参与加拿大的铁路建设，是最早成为加拿大公民的中国人之一。几年前，黄明珍出国采访后回加拿大，海关的值班官员怀疑她所持的加拿大护照是伪造的，将她关在小屋内盘查了数小时。当海关官员最终允许她入境时，心情沮丧的黄明珍问了一句：“这一切都是因为我的肤色吗？”那位官员的回答是：“我不能回答这个问题。”黄明珍事后在《环球邮报》上写道：“很多人在离开祖国的时候伤感，而我是在进入加拿大国门的时候哭泣。”

　　作为华裔加拿大女记者，黄明珍著述颇丰。熟识黄明珍的人说她有幽默感，常能苦中作乐。

　　由于黄明珍在大陆生活过多年，所以她回大陆采访时，写出的东西常比西人记者更有独到视角。

　　环球邮报早于1950年代即在中国派驻记者，是北美报章中最早的一家。但今天的中国报道不再局限于当地新闻，因为中国的崛起已经成为一个全球现象。

　　去年10月她连续在大陆访问近一个月，将注意力集中于中国经济的发展和加中双边贸易关系。此行包括长江沿线的南京、武汉、重庆、扬州、杭州等城市，然后回到北京。当时她撰文指出，中国经济高速发展有三大优势：便宜的劳力、高技术水准的专业人员和港、台及海外华人强有力的投资。

　　黄明珍也是一个蛮有职业感的人。有朋友回忆说，2003年开春闹非典的时候，多伦多卫生医官发布命令，3月16日之后到过慈恩医院的民众，必须在家中严格隔离10天，也就是感染 SARS 的潜伏期，家庭成员都必须戴口罩，因为慈恩医院是非典“重灾区”。

　　由于黄明珍曾在3月18日去慈恩医院采访，在里面各处晃了一个多小时，于是落入“自动隔离”范围。当时报社里同事闻知都很紧张，有人甚至脸色发白地对她猛吼：“你整天都在对著我呼吸! ”另一名身怀六甲的同事更惊呼：“我刚和你吃完午餐！”她的上司则下令她立即回家，不过要由家中传稿。

　　于是黄明珍由家中发稿，不可以外出。小儿子萨姆说她得了SARS，她戴著口罩告诉9岁的儿子，她不是SARS病患。至于大儿子班恩问她，口罩究竟要戴多久，她向儿子解释说，当时已是自己到慈恩医院采访第8天，根据10潜伏期要求，只不过再戴2天。

　　当时黄明珍已订了机票准备到香港和中国南部，采访SARS病源。最后还是接受医生劝告，退了机票，取消那趟香港之行。
作者: pieli    时间: 2006-9-29 16:12
不管结果怎样,有些东西拿出来谈谈还是有必要的;任何观点都是两面的,不会有无因之果,也同样不会有无果之因...尽量的心平气和一点就好了,动了大火,也犯不着,毕竟很多问题基准还是有的...

有时侯明知道有问题,也会先压一压,也是对的,凡事太较真了也没有好处,急火必然功心,社会存在问题是难免的,虽然和谐过度可能并不一定完全可能,但是多少都还是应该把握这种心态.天下的事基本都是差不多的,没有绝对好的政府和社会,加拿大比之中国,其实都是一样的,只是方面不同而已,当然这样的观点自然是因人而异的,很多东西都是根深蒂固的,如果你想激进的转变,就力争去走入强权,其它的谈论多是无谓的.很多时候说话算话是看你自己的份量而非看你如何玩弄梦幻般的辩证逻辑...毕竟我们谈的是现实,而不是一种逻辑关系..

不管怎样,我还是支持她的说话权利的,如果真的有什么君子之类的发文,未免有点小家气了.做人,何所畏.....
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-29 16:59
Post by pieli
...毕竟我们谈的是现实,而不是一种逻辑关系.....

举双手赞成！文人哲学和现实毕竟是两码事。
作者: 金圣叹    时间: 2006-9-29 22:54
有人说101法案不好，有人说101法案好，我看两者说的都对。

有人要PK101法案，因为正是它把法语推崇备至成为了皇上皇，令当今的中国移民痛心疾首，恃才而无法傲物，空有一身好本领却无从施展。

想想一入魁省便如猛虎落海，绝望沉沦，确实有种冲动想把101扒了皮再鞭三百，干脆放火烧它三天三夜才解恨。

不过认真想入三层，这101法案万万不可丢弃。

是，中国移民法语都是半路出家，比不上英语闭眼也可以说上三百句，所以自我感觉如果魁省允许说英语，老子就一定如何如何，仿佛骑上“英格老鼠”，华人就业前景就北极光那么光明了。美死你哈！

美完了？想走了？且慢，免费送你几句危言耸听的东西，听完了再走不迟。

有件事情麻烦你搞清楚了，在一份工作面前，判断你的语言水平高低并不是你能说多少句，而是看比你说得好的有多少人。大哥，你想过没有，在北美，干脆说在这地球上，还有谁的英语会比中国人差？！

你会说，魁北瓜就比我差，你听他们的口音！嘘－－哥哥，你搞错了

魁瓜说英语只是有口音，但他们说得的确比华人好！真的，你可能在北美太久了，忘了中国的事情，其实一说你也马上会认同－－

香港人的普通话虽然很差，但那的确是普通话，港味的普通话呀哥哥，至于洋人的普通话再好，玩去吧，完全摆不到同一个层次上。

所以，别以为说英语了魁瓜就会让出什么位置给你，法式英语照样压死你，你死了这条心吧。

而且，英语的堤坝一开，中国人就连原来有希望争的位置也没有了。

你看多伦多工作机会牛多，但找不着工作的人也牛多，他们的英语绝对天下无敌，因为法语知识是零，所以一直雪涌蓝关，蹲在多伦多饿着肚子领救济。他们NND一听说魁省101法案谢了，都不用你提醒，马上一群又一群狼似的漫山遍野地涌过来，里三层外三层。

呜呼，这种环境，大哥你还想找工作呀，下辈子吧，那么烂的英语做×都轮不到你，花点脑筋找地方跳桥吧！对不起，到时跳桥都排队，你就烧炭去吧！

还说开放英语，唉，GILL哥的母语就是英语，也就是说按语言排序，须等GILL哥找着了好工作之后，中国人才有机会工作，可见生存机会之渺茫。唉，各位，既然你们支持黄姑娘的理论，那么轮到你们接过GILL哥的枪，天天去DAWSON饭堂漫无目的地扫射了。

说到最后，非常刻薄地说，101法案对于中国人来讲，就象小了一号的乳罩，紧是紧了点，但有比没有好。如果你说：“这么不舒服，还是摘下来吧…”那么，这种一时之间空前的自由将令你更加羞愧难当、更加无地自容，这恐怕不是旧问题的结束，而是新问题的开始。
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-9-29 23:01
写得好...
Post by 金圣叹
有人说101法案不好，有人说101法案好，我看两者说的都对。

有人要PK101法案，因为正是它把法语推崇备至成为了皇上皇，令当今的中国移民痛心疾首，恃才而无法傲物，空有一身好本领却无从施展。

想想一入魁省便如猛虎落海，绝望沉沦，确实有种冲动想把101扒了皮再鞭三百，干脆放火烧它三天三夜才解恨。

不过认真想入三层，这101法案万万不可丢弃。

是，中国移民法语都是半路出家，比不上英语闭眼也可以说上三百句，所以自我感觉如果魁省允许说英语，老子就一定如何如何，仿佛骑上“英格老鼠”，华人就业前景就北极光那么光明了。美死你哈！

美完了？想走了？且慢，免费送你几句危言耸听的东西，听完了再走不迟。

有件事情麻烦你搞清楚了，在一份工作面前，判断你的语言水平高低并不是你能说多少句，而是看比你说得好的有多少人。大哥，你想过没有，在北美，干脆说在这地球上，还有谁的英语会比中国人差？！

你会说，魁北瓜就比我差，你听他们的口音！嘘－－哥哥，你搞错了

魁瓜说英语只是有口音，但他们说得的确比华人好！真的，你可能在北美太久了，忘了中国的事情，其实一说你也马上会认同－－

香港人的普通话虽然很差，但那的确是普通话，港味的普通话呀哥哥，至于洋人的普通话再好，玩去吧，完全摆不到同一个层次上。

所以，别以为说英语了魁瓜就会让出什么位置给你，法式英语照样压死你，你死了这条心吧。

而且，英语的堤坝一开，中国人就连原来有希望争的位置也没有了。

你看多伦多工作机会牛多，但找不着工作的人也牛多，他们的英语绝对天下无敌，因为法语知识是零，所以一直雪涌蓝关，蹲在多伦多饿着肚子领救济。他们NND一听说魁省101法案谢了，都不用你提醒，马上一群又一群狼似的漫山遍野地涌过来，里三层外三层。

呜呼，这种环境，大哥你还想找工作呀，下辈子吧，那么烂的英语做×都轮不到你，花点脑筋找地方跳桥吧！对不起，到时跳桥都排队，你就烧炭去吧！

还说开放英语，唉，GILL哥的母语就是英语，也就是说按语言排序，须等GILL哥找着了好工作之后，中国人才有机会工作，可见生存机会之渺茫。唉，各位，既然你们支持黄姑娘的理论，那么轮到你们接过GILL哥的枪，天天去DAWSON饭堂漫无目的地扫射了。

说到最后，非常刻薄地说，101法案对于中国人来讲，就象小了一号的乳罩，紧是紧了点，但有比没有好。如果你说：“这么不舒服，还是摘下来吧…”那么，这种一时之间空前的自由将令你更加羞愧难当、更加无地自容，这恐怕不是旧问题的结束，而是新问题的开始。
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-9-29 23:53
其实最好不要动不动便牵涉到101 法案。就我家庭而言， 由于我需要挑家庭的大梁，没有机会去学英语、法语；但我一贯支持我的遗妻及我现在的妻子除了学好英语外，更鼓励她们学习法语。我的大女儿87年随我们来加，便送入法语学校，没有觉得什么不好，现在她在英语大学就学；反而对她多了一门语言的交流机会。

歧视引起的不公并不仅仅是因为 101 法案的存在与否；这里面包含着方方面面的因素。三年、五年；五年、八年，十年、二十年，然后再回头看看自己和家人走过来的移民路，现实生活中每人都有机会慢慢琢磨体会。
作者: Lunear    时间: 2006-9-30 12:58
我尊重当地法语人士的传统文化和他们对自己语言的热爱，但是有必要就上升到那么高的高度吗？说法语的人就比说其他语言的人优雅高等？至少大部分说法语的人是这么认为的。我曾经问过一个当地的魁北瓜为什么在这里会这么保护法语，他说那还不是为了保护当地某些人的权益。你不会说法语，在这里谋不到好职位，当地人当然就有利了。

然而放眼全加拿大和全球经济，这样的“固步自封”绝对是坏事。实行双语，增加了政府和纳税人的负担，减低了效率。一个人一生的精力是有限的，不是每一个人都有语言天赋。你要学习2,3种语言，还要精通，你还有其他能力去学习别的东西吗？

看看现在魁北克的经济数字，都排第九了，不离开，就在这里跟说法语的魁北瓜一起“Downfall”吧。
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-30 22:15
Post by 金圣叹
有人说101法案不好，有人说101法案好，我看两者说的都对。
.... ....

说到最后，非常刻薄地说，101法案对于中国人来讲，就象小了一号的乳罩，紧是紧了点，但有比没有好。如果你说：“这么不舒服，还是摘下来吧…”那么，这种一时之间空前的自由将令你更加羞愧难当、更加无地自容，这恐怕不是旧问题的结束，而是新问题的开始。
写得不错.
金总前一篇也不错.
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-9-30 22:21
Post by Lunear
我尊重当地法语人士的传统文化和他们对自己语言的热爱，但是有必要就上升到那么高的高度吗？说法语的人就比说其他语言的人优 雅高等？至少大部分说法语的人是这么认为的。我曾经问过一个当地的魁北瓜为什么在这里会这么保护法语，他说那还不是为了保护当地某些人的权益。你不会说法 语，在这里谋不到好职位，当地人当然就有利了。

然而放眼全加拿大和全球经济，这样的“固步自封”绝对是坏事。实行双语，增加了政府和纳税人的负担，减低了效率。一个人一生的精力是有限的，不是每一个人都有语言天赋。你要学习2,3种语言，还要精通，你还有其他能力去学习别的东西吗？

看看现在魁北克的经济数字，都排第九了，不离开，就在这里跟说法语的魁北瓜一起“Downfall”吧。
这个得从大环境看, 就是这么保护, 法语在魁北克也未必能有生路. 设身处地替法语人想一下. 换个位置, 我多半回这么干.
作者: wustorm    时间: 2006-10-1 18:19
  支持jane wong!并向她表示崇高的敬意！

   我是在枪击案发生的当天下午3点多得知的消息，当时我在和一位朋友通电话时，就向她说了和jane wong 同样的观点：政府难咎其职！尽管这只是我当时对事发原因的一种推测，很不幸的是，这些推测竟然被jane wong证明了。所以，我深信有同样观点的人不止我和jane wong两个人，即便是总理哈哥和杜省长，内心深处恐怕也是有几分同感的吧，否则，就不会这么迫不及待地口诛笔伐jane wong了，其实，他们这么做的目的，无非是想转移人们关注的焦点，jane wong只是剖析发生这些恶性事件的根源，试图找到一些共同的特征，这是一个记者的良知使然。不幸的是Jane wong在这些恶性事件中恰恰就发现了一些共性，而产生这些共性的原因又恰恰是哈、杜两哥及一帮政客们所要承担的，这是他们不愿意听到的，所以，他们害怕了，所以，他们迫不及待地要转移公众的注意力，不要让这把火烧到他们身上。所以，他们才异口同声来讨伐jane wong。这就是政客的无耻！

   下面我来说说在全世界法学界臭名昭著的101法案：

   所谓的101法案，其实就是一个歧视性的法案！这一点是毫无疑问的！说它臭名昭著也不是我说的，这是我在中国认识的很多律师朋友们对这部法案的评价。

我来解释原因：101法案的宗旨是强制移民接受法语文化，而加拿大是一个多族裔的多元文化的国家，为什么偏偏要让所有的移民都接受一种族裔的文化呢？是魁北克除了法裔以外就没有别的族裔了吗？还是法语比其他语言更重要呢？显然都不是，那这就是一种歧视！而这种歧视居然能以立法的形式存在于魁北克，可见这里的歧视严重到了什么程度！更让人恶心的是，偏偏一边歧视还一边口口声声说什么倡导多元文化！真应了中国的那句老话：既想当婊子，又要立牌坊。难怪在这样的环境下生活长大的吉尔小哥哥，会认为所有的人都不值得信任，会对社会彻底丧失信心。据说另外两外使用暴力的原因也是这样的，但是，当局却把这三个人的行为，归结于精神有问题，是否牵强，以后我会另作分析，这里我只想说的是：一个正常的人长期生活在这样的环境里，精神能不出问题吗？

    选择学习和使用什么样的语言完全是个人的一个权力，这一点无论是谁都不能否认的。101法案对社会的最大贡献就是让本地的法裔人士，更加有持无恐地歧视非法裔人士，因为这种歧视是有法可依的。而更为荒唐的是：101法案保护的是一个族裔的文化，我们都知道运行和维护一个法案是要付出很大的社会成本的，而101法案的这个成本却要让所有族裔共同来承担！就是说他们打了你，还要你掏钱！看来魁北瓜们是完全继承了他们海盗祖先的“优良品格”。


  再一次向jane wong表达崇高的敬意！！！
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-10-1 19:03
我们是否也应该为魁北克为保持自己的民族独立性所做的努力而尊敬他们呢?

汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化, 而魁北克几百年来从没向英国文化屈服, 按照他们的说法,他们仍旧在有限范围内为保持自己的文化而战斗.

101法案确实带来诸多不便, 但魁北克没有强迫你到魁北克来使用法语. 你可能会说这里是加拿大.  这同样是魁北克的无奈, 几百年前这块地方是法国战败给了英国. 在中国, 满清赶走了明帝国,现在的汉人却以穿满服来代表中国文化, 不少人还以皇城根为荣... 你可以说汉人同化了满人, 但几十年前, 却为什么放弃了同化日本人呢?

当魁北克还在不屈不饶的同英国文化做斗争的时候, 我们男人穿着满服,女的裹着旗袍, 挺身而出, 指责魁北克不说英语.

我不说法语,也痛恨其带来的不便,但能理解为什么他们会有这样的立法. 我们可以向JONE WONG致敬, 因为这里还没几个象样的中国人能在主流媒体上大声喝骂, 所以, 只要是这样的人物, 都要支持, 无论其内容如何.

Post by wustorm
  支持jane wong!并向她表示崇高的敬意！

   我是在枪击案发生的当天下午3点多得知的消息，当时我在和一位朋友通电话时，就向她说了和jane wong 同样的观点：政府难咎其职！尽管这只是我当时对事发原因的一种推测，很不幸的是，这些推测竟然被jane wong证明了。所以，我深信有同样观点的人不止我和jane wong两个人，即便是总理哈哥和杜省长，内心深处恐怕也是有几分同感的吧，否则，就不会这么迫不及待地口诛笔伐jane wong了，其实，他们这么做的目的，无非是想转移人们关注的焦点，jane wong只是剖析发生这些恶性事件的根源，试图找到一些共同的特征，这是一个记者的良知使然。不幸的是Jane wong在这些恶性事件中恰恰就发现了一些共性，而产生这些共性的原因又恰恰是哈、杜两哥及一帮政客们所要承担的，这是他们不愿意听到的，所以，他们害怕了，所以，他们迫不及待地要转移公众的注意力，不要让这把火烧到他们身上。所以，他们才异口同声来讨伐jane wong。这就是政客的无耻！

   下面我来说说在全世界法学界臭名昭著的101法案：

   所谓的101法案，其实就是一个歧视性的法案！这一点是毫无疑问的！说它臭名昭著也不是我说的，这是我在中国认识的很多律师朋友们对这部法案的评价。

我来解释原因：101法案的宗旨是强制移民接受法语文化，而加拿大是一个多族裔的多元文化的国家，为什么偏偏要让所有的移民都接受一种族裔的文化呢？是魁北克除了法裔以外就没有别的族裔了吗？还是法语比其他语言更重要呢？显然都不是，那这就是一种歧视！而这种歧视居然能以立法的形式存在于魁北克，可见这里的歧视严重到了什么程度！更让人恶心的是，偏偏一边歧视还一边口口声声说什么倡导多元文化！真应了中国的那句老话：既想当婊子，又要立牌坊。难怪在这样的环境下生活长大的吉尔小哥哥，会认为所有的人都不值得信任，会对社会彻底丧失信心。据说另外两外使用暴力的原因也是这样的，但是，当局却把这三个人的行为，归结于精神有问题，是否牵强，以后我会另作分析，这里我只想说的是：一个正常的人长期生活在这样的环境里，精神能不出问题吗？

    选择学习和使用什么样的语言完全是个人的一个权力，这一点无论是谁都不能否认的。101法案对社会的最大贡献就是让本地的法裔人士，更加有持无恐地歧视非法裔人士，因为这种歧视是有法可依的。而更为荒唐的是：101法案保护的是一个族裔的文化，我们都知道运行和维护一个法案是要付出很大的社会成本的，而101法案的这个成本却要让所有族裔共同来承担！就是说他们打了你，还要你掏钱！看来魁北瓜们是完全继承了他们海盗祖先的“优良品格”。


  再一次向jane wong表达崇高的敬意！！！
作者: practice    时间: 2006-10-2 20:02
兄弟此处用词欠妥，你说“完全”归化，那要包括政治经济与文化，满清掌控了政治与经济，但却丢失了文化，你看我汉人照说汉语，而不是满洲的语种。，[QUOTE=markelei00]
汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化,  

作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-10-2 20:46
我用词上面要检讨. 有点过... 就是某些方面满清被汉同化了, 这样说可以吗?

Post by practice
兄弟此处用词欠妥，你说“完全”归化，那要包括政治经济与文化，满清掌控了政治与经济，但却丢失了文化，你看我汉人照说汉语，而不是满洲的语种。，[QUOTE=markelei00]
汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化,  
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-2 22:21
标题: 再次全力声援 JAN WONG!
再次全力声援 JAN WONG!

其实我不以为 JAN WONG 的文章本身和发表的时间有什么错；相反，大量移民的涌入更突出了 JAN WONG 涉及的问题的重要性和紧迫性。

加拿大是一个民主法制的社会固然没有错；但在此同时加国是一个金钱社会，亦是一个商品社会。然当连正义与否都是以钱衡量的话，那么司法本身还有多少正义的成分？相信和我一样有不幸遭遇的人们定有所共鸣。

然而当充满铜臭下来谈正义，这里面还有多少正义可言，而自然而然的移民及少数族裔首当其冲成为受害者也见怪不怪了。

我是对律师们没多大好感，因为他们毁了我的生活；然当律师的职业成为商业，而律师不再为正义而战，那么我的遭遇也是正常不过的。

其实真正毁了我的不是仅仅是律师，而是这极其官僚的制度，尤其是那些带着有色眼镜，将其本身英法文化之争的情绪混淆在其职责而胡乱左右我们命运的官僚们。而这不仅仅反映在我的问题上，从一个个向我救助的人们的事件来看亦是如此。

我以前曾提醒过大家，差不多所有的投诉中心不过是蒙蔽民众的花瓶－－本人是一而再、再而三的体会并领悟了它的"好处"；在此我再一次提醒大家：我的经历再次证实了这一点。

歧视不仅仅在于肤色人种及文化差异，歧视以各种各样的形色出现并发生在各个领域各个层次。歧视带来的伤痛不仅仅是受害者本身，更深深损害了加国及魁省社会的和谐。

因此，我除对联邦、魁省总理齐声指责 JAN WANG 表示异议，对国会施压要环球邮报向社会道歉的做法深表遗憾之外，再次全力声援 JAN WONG!

总理先生们，你们是两级政府的领头羊，想想你们在竞选时的承诺；而国会议员大人们口口声声都表示是代表民众监督政府的，为什么都无法象 JAN WONG 一样去发现本质及隐患呢？
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-2 23:49
我所提及的是我1997 年时的心态，故在你发表你的观点的时候，最好不要断章取义。至于我现在的心态如何，我究竟为什么一而再、再而三坚持不懈的要求政府还我公道，相信你可能暂时无法理解。

如想进一步了解我的心态，不妨向生活在我周围的打听一二，或直接和我面谈再作定论不迟。一个从死亡边缘闯过来而再获重生的人的心态不是一般常人所能体会的。不然我亦不会经常在网上为他人提供方便，通过电话或面谈为他人解难排忧。

JAN WONG 并没有凭空猜测，而是通过这一系列的现象探讨它的实质和隐患从而提醒主流社会急需关注·和警惕平等正义对各个层次民众的重要性。

无需就我的不幸来进行推测臆想，不妨走访走访就华人社团内近期所发生在其他人士中的一些歧视、诈骗等不公的事列，甚至不妨尽你能力为他们获得正义奔走一二， 然后再回头看看你现在的观点如何。

斗胆说一句：先生在发表高论时，最好了解一下事情的来龙去脉，而在尚未阅读其文章前便断然否定，或将某人的遭遇断章取义，鄙人实在无法体会到其中有什么积极或实际的意义。

言不达意，还望海涵。
Post by vipkj
个人十分理解你的心情,如果一个人遇到不公正待遇的时候,那里的天都是灰的.正因为如此,你现在的观点一定是带有倾向性的,这种倾向性对于你个人问题的解决是有益的.但是对这次无辜被杀害的学生是不公正的.我本人只能有保留的支持Jan Wong.如果她能看到这个帖子的话,我希望她能去采访那个康大教授和阿尔及利亚青年来证明自己的正确性,毕竟以猜测和个人经历来写文章不符合一个职业记者的要求.现在Jan Wong要救自己,那需要的是证据,证据,证据!!!!!!!!!
还有我可以十分肯定的告诉你,我在加拿大曾遭到讲英语和法语的人士的排斥和歧视,并非你所说的一帆风顺.
还有你说你曾经动过那种念头,说明你的心态真的不是很好.但是我也支持你和他们斗争,并且我认为你比那些忍气吞声,或者漠不关心的人强的多的多的多!
作者: wustorm    时间: 2006-10-3 00:22

汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化,


那你在这里发帖子为什么还用汉字，不用满文？你祖先不是汉人？
作者: markelei00    时间: 2006-10-3 01:56
你们这些通知, 喜欢玩文字游戏, 在英文里叫: swimming in the words...

为什么引用前面而忽略后面呢? = > "你可以说汉人同化了满人, 但几十年前, 却为什么放弃了同化日本人呢? "



Post by wustorm

汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化,


那你在这里发帖子为什么还用汉字，不用满文？你祖先不是汉人？
作者: 中秋节    时间: 2006-10-3 07:26
我在某种意义上支持JOAN WONG的观点,她的观点并不等于她支持那些人用暴力来反抗对他们不公正的社会体制和文化.尽管主流社会似乎在同声声讨她,但目前至少有两位保守党议员对魁北克的封闭文化批评,还有总督女士.

这是个自由的国家,每个人都有权发表自己的观点.七君子的观点也在于此.我们应该听到不同的观点,而不是华人社会就是一个声音,因为我们不在大陆.

JOAN WONG很有勇气,做为一个少数族裔,敢向主流社会发出尖锐的批评.我看目前在主流媒体上发表如此大胆的批评的华裔只有她.

在一个悲剧发生之后,整个社会都需要反思,不然悲剧还会重演.JOAN WONG从她的角度反思,尽管尖刻令当地社会无法接受,但是事实上魁省的封闭和对外来移民的种种限制是根源之一.

移民是艰难的,没有蛋糕在加拿大等着我们.我们的权利是需要我们自己用合法手段去争取的,尽管时间漫长.
Post by deland
我看不是君子，就算JAN WONG做了什么错事，从哪个角度上也轮不到他们跳出来，就是哪个华人犯了弥天大罪被人砍了脑袋，也没有他们过去再踢一脚的道理，如果他们写信只是申明JAN WONG的言论不代表他们，那没有什么，其实哪个人也代表不了别人，我没听人说JAN WONG写那篇文章是想代表他们7个，他们写一封废话信以示划清界线也就罢了，有什么资格要求JAN WONG向他们道歉，伤害他们热爱魁北克的感情的言论很多，为什么不敢写信要求别的族裔的人向他们道歉？只因为她跟这7个人是同一个族裔？天啊，她可是真不幸，JAN WONG的观点对错我不知道，但我认为应当支持她，别人可以随便对中国的事大放厥词，中国人有话为什么就不敢说出来．
作者: shabu    时间: 2006-10-3 08:25
满人聪明的地方就是保留了汉人的习俗和文化，因为他们知道强迫一个拥有巨大人口和悠久历史的民族去放弃自己的文化会造成他们的不断的反抗，对于满清政府来说绝对不是件好事。
我们摒除抢占印第安人的土地的过错，法国人确实先进驻加拿大的，英国人进入加拿大时动用大量资金想要把法国人赶走。他们的方式是把有文化和经济能力的法国人强行送走，目的是可以更好的控制和奴役剩下的法国人。
如果换作中国人，我们能不捍卫我们的文化吗？就象当初若不是满人保留了我们的文化，汉人早就造反无数次了，为的就是捍卫我们的文化。试想我们也象魁北克人一样不被允许说自己的语言（当初英国人曾经禁止魁北克人说法语）的话会怎样？就象犹太人，没有国家的民族，失去了定居地的民族，可是至今为止，分散到各地，他们还是保留了它们的语言，宗教，和习俗。而且到现在他们还是不迟疑的告诉人们他们是犹太人。他们是好样的！所以魁北克人捍卫他们的文化有什么错呢？现在我们中国人也分散在各地，有没有人站出来说我们不要我们的文化了？


Post by wustorm

汉人在被满清短暂的几百年奴役之后就已经完全归化,


那你在这里发帖子为什么还用汉字，不用满文？你祖先不是汉人？
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-3 09:06
捍卫法裔文化本身没有错，错是错在某些官僚大人们将捍卫本民族文化和自己职责权力范围混淆了。再说社会是在进步的，不能将一百年前的满清和加国社会的现状划等同。其次，加拿大是移民国家，这一点上和中国的国情亦不尽相同。

况且，今天的加拿大对魁省的宽容是大家有目共睹的。记得90年我在犹太人那里担任厨师一职时，曾经和一位QUEBECOIS点心厨师探讨就为什么他们要搞独立的问题时，他说：其实没有人真正想独立，这是一个为我们争取更多权力的筹码。。。

为了争取更多的权力，其结果蒙城由北美最大的城市之一黯然退出为多伦多取而代之，经济从此一蹶不振，深受其害的不仅仅是少数族裔，而是留在魁省的法裔本身。。。
Post by shabu
满人聪明的地方就是保留了汉人的习俗和文化，因为他们知道强迫一个拥有巨大人口和悠久历史的民族去放弃自己的文化会造成他们的不断的反抗，对于满清政府来说绝对不是件好事。
我们摒除抢占印第安人的土地的过错，法国人确实先进驻加拿大的，英国人进入加拿大时动用大量资金想要把法国人赶走。他们的方式是把有文化和经济能力的法国人强行送走，目的是可以更好的控制和奴役剩下的法国人。
如果换作中国人，我们能不捍卫我们的文化吗？就象当初若不是满人保留了我们的文化，汉人早就造反无数次了，为的就是捍卫我们的文化。试想我们也象魁北克人一样不被允许说自己的语言（当初英国人曾经禁止魁北克人说法语）的话会怎样？就象犹太人，没有国家的民族，失去了定居地的民族，可是至今为止，分散到各地，他们还是保留了它们的语言，宗教，和习俗。而且到现在他们还是不迟疑的告诉人们他们是犹太人。他们是好样的！所以魁北克人捍卫他们的文化有什么错呢？现在我们中国人也分散在各地，有没有人站出来说我们不要我们的文化了？
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-3 09:15
标题: STRONGLY SUPPORT FOR THE ARTICLE OF "GET UNDER DESK"—ADDITI
Dear Editor and Madam Jan Wong: [email="jwong@globeandmail.ca,Newsroom@globeandmail.com"]jwong@globeandmail.ca,Newsroom@globeandmail.com[/email]


Since your article published, it became a hot subject in our Chinese society. Just from www.sinoquebec.com/bbs the thread of 让我们支持Jan Wong ( 1 2 3 ) , it brought us join with this great discussion. And I realized, more than 90% of Chinese are stand your side since you said truth, which no one wants to really talking about especially with Medias.


I personal experienced when Ami Quebec wish to bring my story to have an attention with medias--but no one want to publish my story. As they said, they feel sorry for me, but they don't want to involve since my story is too sensitive...

Some victims living with similar situation like me, they are contacting with me and wish I would give them some advise from my life experience what I went through. In this Sunday afternoon, we will have a meeting to support each other, and we all ready to support you.

Just from my case, you may already see the problem:Summer of 1990, I was insulted by two MUC Police officer as a killer at Van Horn Park when I brought my family visited Jamaica festival; when I went to station request they apologize to me, MUC put my name check if I have some bad record before they talk to me...

April 28, 1991, without our family members knowing, the doctor stopped medication treatment of my father's lung cancel treatment for three days till we discovered, and then my father died at Jewish General Hospital few days later;

Summer of 1992, I brought my daughter to St-Justin Children Hospital because her high fever and they put her for special care, which we were waiting from 9:00pm till next day 5:00am, people came much late than us already back to their home, and we were still waiting. When I asked them why, the counter several people asked me why I don't speak French since this is Quebec...

November 30, 1995, my late wife was sent by ambulance to Montreal General Hospital for trauma third degree injury--the hospital delay 7 hours for the surgery, and before that they even never thought need to reduce her head blood pressure...

Moreover, on Dec.4 1995, the hospital promised that they would try their best to survive her (the medical expenses even were not from the government, which covered by responsible party's insurance company), but just next day morning, without I knowing, the doctor signed article 99 to let her die (she died on December 8, 1995)...

December 2, 1995 YWCA sent a "lawyer" (Enza Martuccilli) from their own legal clinic for legal and family support, which this person was court order for community service that she was no longer as a lawyer and with criminal record, and I got personal fraud $20,000 from her...

January 1996, MUC Police used me as an witness to against my boss who has Chinese mafia background, which I spent my own expenses forced the his restaurant went to bankruptcy, and I took over to let the employees to keep the job; but once those mafia put more pressure on me, MUC Police just simply told me I better to relocate my business since those are dangerous people...

July 1996, MUC Police convinced me as their witness again to against Enza Martuccilli for public interests with a promise would try their best to protect me if she cost me trouble. But once I provide my evidence, my life totally destroyed:

Different of inspectors came to my restaurant to check if I did anything wrong; the mafia came eat for free and break down things; threaten phone calls... Moreover, I got second fraud since Enza Martuccili convinced one of my employee cooperate with her;

By then, all kind seemly impossible happened things it happened to my life: from MUC Police witness, I became a defender at the civil court; both suspects illegally ran my business for three years, which even got compensation from my landlord, and removed my restaurant and hidden my assets away since MUC Police refused to involve, instead keep telling me that I need lawyers since this is "civil"...

The unbelievable thing is: MUC Police even refused to catch both of them although Enza Martuccilli is facing for criminal court arrest order; moreover, when I made personal appearance to the superior court to made the justice system realized I am the victim, which was not a defender, and MUC Police reduced to take any action even I found both suspects and my assets where then were hidden...

The worst thing is I was immolated by MUC Police again in June 30, 2001 that they kicked me out from my own premise of my new restaurant, which it totally destroyed my hope to turn over the page, forget the past and rebuild my new life since MUC Police refused to correct the mistake they made…

I had great personal experiences with government, legal and justice system once I stopped idea to done justice by my own: when I return the gun, and I walked in to Jewish General Hospital asking for help in 1997. By then I found more discrimination element through on the way to keep knocking for justice:

The social status, the race, especially when they discovered that I only knew how to speak English and I don’t understand French at all, many Quebec government agencies the first question was asked me why I don’t learn French since I already being here for many years? How could I suppose answer for it? Said truth because the immigration office doesn’t let me to take the course or just lie to them, which nothing would satisfy their wonders anyhow; by then how possibly for me to receive fair treatment?

By the fact, discrimination is everywhere compare with US; just Canada doesn’t want to face it. Just looks at the way the treatment I received from the hospital, there is another element of discrimination:

Right after when I changed my mind and went into Jewish General Hospital asking for help, I was shocked to learn that the patients in mental institution almost have no basic rights; but no one could see anything about, otherwise you will in trouble: I was been locked on the bed for punishment just because I told one of the nurse when he treated another patient very badly…

There was no one really care about your health, and the psychiatry doctor only care is the patient’ body comical balance, but they never thought most the important thing for mental patients are the spiritual and soul healing besides of those comical pills; 5 years of depression treatment it caused me became as robot plus the worst of side-effects suffering…

Moreover, when my social worker mistakenly convinced my doctor locked me in at Jewish General Hospital again in year 2002, when the doctor who is in charge for the mental institution learned that five years the treatment they did on me only ruined my health, and I did recovered by Chinese medical treatment, it made him lost face, he tried to make a deal to let me continue back on his medication and let me free…

Once I refused, they tried to put all kind pressure on me and my family: locked me on the bed for punishment and force medication treatment, cut down my family visit time and cut my phone communicate time with my family and outside; put more pressure on my wife and called Child Care Centre try to take away our baby from the family; lie to the superior court about my situation and try to get court order for medication and lock me in the mental institution for life…

For the legal and justice system, which I already mentioned on my first letter; recently I received a refusal letter again from the Police Ethics Commissioner, which although Mr. Kevin Bilodeau from Quebec Minister Office repeatedly convinced me do believe the system that the Police Ethics Commissioner will take care my matter seriously in this time since the minister office is putting attention on it…

so from above of these, if both our minister Mr. Stephen Haber and Mr. Jean Charest still claim the government provide great system for the citizens especially claim the government system do care the minority societies also, then how could explain the numbers unfair happened to me and to the others who had been immolated by the legal and justice system, which never get no where—the comment thing we made it happen is: the lawyers are getting more and more richer and it no matter what could be happened with us…

So the only thing left me to do is, try to use my life experience to support the others and possibly advice them in order for them avoid the terrible life I am experienced.

God blessing…
作者: name_user    时间: 2006-10-3 21:40
Post by peterpan1668
Dear Editor and Madam Jan Wong: [email="jwong@globeandmail.ca,Newsroom@globeandmail.com"]jwong@globeandmail.ca,Newsroom@globeandmail.com[/email]

  
Since your article published, it became a hot subject in our Chinese society. Just from www.sinoquebec.com/bbs the thread of 让我们支持Jan Wong ( 1 2 3 ) , it brought us join with this great discussion. And I realized, more than 90% of Chinese are stand your side since you said truth, which no one wants to really talking about especially with Medias.

  
I personal experienced when Ami Quebec wish to bring my story to have an attention with medias--but no one want to publish my story. As they said, they feel sorry for me, but they don't want to involve since my story is too sensitive...

Some victims living with similar situation like me, they are contacting with me and wish I would give them some advise from my life experience what I went through. In this Sunday afternoon, we will have a meeting to support each other, and we all ready to support you.

Just from my case, you may already see the problem:Summer of 1990, I was insulted by two MUC Police officer as a killer at Van Horn Park when I brought my family visited Jamaica festival; when I went to station request they apologize to me, MUC put my name check if I have some bad record before they talk to me...

April 28, 1991, without our family members knowing, the doctor stopped medication treatment of my father's lung cancel treatment for three days till we discovered, and then my father died at Jewish General Hospital few days later;

Summer of 1992, I brought my daughter to St-Justin Children Hospital because her high fever and they put her for special care, which we were waiting from 9:00pm till next day 5:00am, people came much late than us already back to their home, and we were still waiting. When I asked them why, the counter several people asked me why I don't speak French since this is Quebec...

November 30, 1995, my late wife was sent by ambulance to Montreal General Hospital for trauma third degree injury--the hospital delay 7 hours for the surgery, and before that they even never thought need to reduce her head blood pressure...

Moreover, on Dec.4 1995, the hospital promised that they would try their best to survive her (the medical expenses even were not from the government, which covered by responsible party's insurance company), but just next day morning, without I knowing, the doctor signed article 99 to let her die (she died on December 8, 1995)...

December 2, 1995 YWCA sent a "lawyer" (Enza Martuccilli) from their own legal clinic for legal and family support, which this person was court order for community service that she was no longer as a lawyer and with criminal record, and I got personal fraud $20,000 from her...

January 1996, MUC Police used me as an witness to against my boss who has Chinese mafia background, which I spent my own expenses forced the his restaurant went to bankruptcy, and I took over to let the employees to keep the job; but once those mafia put more pressure on me, MUC Police just simply told me I better to relocate my business since those are dangerous people...

July 1996, MUC Police convinced me as their witness again to against Enza Martuccilli for public interests with a promise would try their best to protect me if she cost me trouble. But once I provide my evidence, my life totally destroyed:

Different of inspectors came to my restaurant to check if I did anything wrong; the mafia came eat for free and break down things; threaten phone calls... Moreover, I got second fraud since Enza Martuccili convinced one of my employee cooperate with her;

By then, all kind seemly impossible happened things it happened to my life: from MUC Police witness, I became a defender at the civil court; both suspects illegally ran my business for three years, which even got compensation from my landlord, and removed my restaurant and hidden my assets away since MUC Police refused to involve, instead keep telling me that I need lawyers since this is "civil"...

The unbelievable thing is: MUC Police even refused to catch both of them although Enza Martuccilli is facing for criminal court arrest order; moreover, when I made personal appearance to the superior court to made the justice system realized I am the victim, which was not a defender, and MUC Police reduced to take any action even I found both suspects and my assets where then were hidden...

The worst thing is I was immolated by MUC Police again in June 30, 2001 that they kicked me out from my own premise of my new restaurant, which it totally destroyed my hope to turn over the page, forget the past and rebuild my new life since MUC Police refused to correct the mistake they made…

I had great personal experiences with government, legal and justice system once I stopped idea to done justice by my own: when I return the gun, and I walked in to Jewish General Hospital asking for help in 1997. By then I found more discrimination element through on the way to keep knocking for justice:

The social status, the race, especially when they discovered that I only knew how to speak English and I don’t understand French at all, many Quebec government agencies the first question was asked me why I don’t learn French since I already being here for many years? How could I suppose answer for it? Said truth because the immigration office doesn’t let me to take the course or just lie to them, which nothing would satisfy their wonders anyhow; by then how possibly for me to receive fair treatment?

By the fact, discrimination is everywhere compare with US; just Canada doesn’t want to face it. Just looks at the way the treatment I received from the hospital, there is another element of discrimination:

Right after when I changed my mind and went into Jewish General Hospital asking for help, I was shocked to learn that the patients in mental institution almost have no basic rights; but no one could see anything about, otherwise you will in trouble: I was been locked on the bed for punishment just because I told one of the nurse when he treated another patient very badly…

There was no one really care about your health, and the psychiatry doctor only care is the patient’ body comical balance, but they never thought most the important thing for mental patients are the spiritual and soul healing besides of those comical pills; 5 years of depression treatment it caused me became as robot plus the worst of side-effects suffering…

Moreover, when my social worker mistakenly convinced my doctor locked me in at Jewish General Hospital again in year 2002, when the doctor who is in charge for the mental institution learned that five years the treatment they did on me only ruined my health, and I did recovered by Chinese medical treatment, it made him lost face, he tried to make a deal to let me continue back on his medication and let me free…

Once I refused, they tried to put all kind pressure on me and my family: locked me on the bed for punishment and force medication treatment, cut down my family visit time and cut my phone communicate time with my family and outside; put more pressure on my wife and called Child Care Centre try to take away our baby from the family; lie to the superior court about my situation and try to get court order for medication and lock me in the mental institution for life…

For the legal and justice system, which I already mentioned on my first letter; recently I received a refusal letter again from the Police Ethics Commissioner, which although Mr. Kevin Bilodeau from Quebec Minister Office repeatedly convinced me do believe the system that the Police Ethics Commissioner will take care my matter seriously in this time since the minister office is putting attention on it…

so from above of these, if both our minister Mr. Stephen Haber and Mr. Jean Charest still claim the government provide great system for the citizens especially claim the government system do care the minority societies also, then how could explain the numbers unfair happened to me and to the others who had been immolated by the legal and justice system, which never get no where—the comment thing we made it happen is: the lawyers are getting more and more richer and it no matter what could be happened with us…

So the only thing left me to do is, try to use my life experience to support the others and possibly advice them in order for them avoid the terrible life I am experienced.

God blessing…

Why don't you write in Chinese? The English of this article is really poor. If you want English speaking people to understand, why not ask some one to correct? It appears that you have been in Canada for quite long time. Why don't you spend some time to learn some English?
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-3 22:17
老兄， 鄙人正想给加国和魁省总理写信，苦于英语太烂，法语一窍不通（至于为什么语言那么差的原因老兄如有兴趣可透过鄙人的经历慢慢琢磨；要不是鄙人的不幸遭遇，今天鄙人尚在厨房忙活着应付我餐馆的客人们呢，想淌这趟浑水都难）。正好拜托劳你大驾，烦请老兄为鄙人修正后传至我的电子邮箱： peterpan1668@yahoo.ca

在此先谢了:p
Post by name_user
Why don't you write in Chinese? The English of this article is really poor. If you want English speaking people to understand, why not ask some one to correct? It appears that you have been in Canada for quite long time. Why don't you spend some time to learn some English?
作者: redneck    时间: 2006-10-4 01:37



第N+1无产阶级文化大革命开始了！(N>1)


金猴奋起千钧棒，玉宇澄清万里埃！

把反共反华分子批倒批臭，再踏上一万只脚，让他们永世不得翻身！

同学们，跟我这个红色侨领一起振臂高呼：中国共产党万岁！誓死捍卫毛主席的无产阶级革命路线！坚决打倒满地可的一切地富反坏右分子！坚决与满地可的反共反华分子做斗争！无产阶级专政万岁！紧密团结在以胡锦涛主席为首的党中央周围！
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-4 12:40
Our Honorary Prime Minister, Mr. Stephen Joseph Harper
                                                 -&-
Our Honorary Quebec Prime Minister, Mr. Jean Charest:

Surprisingly I learned the article of 【GET UNDER DESK】it brought great attention, which made our honorary ministers also have to make speech and try to clarify since Jan Wong her immense thought and worrier shocked Canadian society.

Unfortunately, I afraid to say that, but since it is the fact: according my personal experience, and my surrounding people who have been immolated by discrimination of the culture war between English Canadian and French Canada, the bureaucracy of legal and justice system, which it more strongly proved that Jan Wong her immense thought and worrier is not just her imagination since this is not just individual, by the fact, it became social problem especially the unfair and injustice more often happened in minority Canadian society.

When unfair treatment appealed, plus injustice done by the system, there is a great chance to push the victim go crazy since there is no other hope—the similar case almost happened to me on year 1997 once my late wife killed by the hospital, and I was immolated with number things, especially by the legal and justice system…

Yes, I did controlled my mind, I was worry about my daughter how to survive since who was only 13 year old with no mother; at the time, I was putting a hope and believing in some day I would able to get justice done fairly; by then I walked in hospital asking for help. In these passed ten years, I always try to encourage myself to believe the system; and I am non stop to keep knocking different of doors, but what is the result? I am living with nightmare from the day up to today!

The entire response letters I received from both level of government by different of agencies, which already thick as a book: from Prime Minister, Justice Minister, public safety minister, Industry Canada, social and health minister, Public relation, MUC chief police, RCMP, College Medicine du Quebec, Barreau du Quebec, human rights, ombudsman, legal aid… But it still didn’t change any.

Recently, I received a response letter from Quebec Prime Minister office, and it brought me a hope since Mr. Kevin Bilodeau from Quebec Minister Office repeatedly convinced me that, do believe the system that the Police Ethics Commissioner will take care my matter seriously in this time because the minister office is putting attention on it…

Two months passed away, the Police Ethics Commissioner made me did all the work for nothing again—on September 29th 2006, I received refusal letter again as usual. In the same day, with MOUVEMENT ACTION JUSTICE, who already accepted my case two months ago; and I learned another bad news that the MOUVEMENT ACTION JUSTICE also changed it mind, refused my case…

The only place left is Quebec Crown Prosecutor department, which Chief Crown Prosecutor Mr. Mario Longpré personally promised three months ago, will carefully analyze my case; but till today, he never response any of my contact… And I believe it will no any news as same as before.

What the crown prosecutor department advice to me was: “Mr. Pan, you are a good citizen…” “Believe me, we all not happy with your case; but your restaurant is gone. Forget about, think about your family and move forward.” But how?! There is no where for me to start.

Passed through all of these, the great experience taught me that: I discovered that, it’s impossible for immigrant to fight with injustice especially to use English language in Quebec. Discriminations appeal everywhere— by the language, the race, the culture, the social status level, and bureaucracy, which just no one really want to talk about since it too sensitive.

Another great lesson I learned is the system: Seemly the system here is much better compare with many other countries; but Canada is a capitalist country, the legal and justice system also deeply effective. There’s way there many victims immolated by the lawyers. By them since the compliant system just as a vase for the main system, so how possibly for victims to get fair justice in order for them return back to a normal live? According my ten years personal experience, this is almost impossible.

From what I understand, Jan Wong did not stand the killer side; she was just trying to bring her point and send a message to the society in order to avoid those terrible incidents happen again. As the federal Minister and provincial Minster, I was wondering why don’t have the same worrier as Jan Wong did to think about how to improve the system functional in order provide better living environment to our citizens?

It’s nothing wrong for Quebecois to create law to protect their own culture; but for those government officers who they should not mixed up from his duty and power with their culture consciousness. Canada is immigrate country, so the majority society should also thing about if there is enough room for minority to breath.

God bless.

___________________

Peter Z Pan

October 3rd 2006

Attached:

LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER OF QUEBEC, July 5th 2006
http://www.sinomontreal.ca/bbs/showthread.php?t=343419

STRONGLY SUPPORT ARTICLE OF 'Get under the desk'
http://www.sinomontreal.ca/bbs/showthread.php?p=1297954#post1297954


让我们支持Jan Wong( 1 2 3 4 )
http://www.sinomontreal.ca/bbs/showthread.php?t=371631&page=1&pp=30

TO name_user: 老兄，现在可要烦请你老兄大驾帮忙修改了。再次先谢了。:p
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-4 17:08
哪里的话，这是关系到我们少数族裔大家的公平和利益，我怎么可能嫌弃？ 我的观点都已经在这里表明了；是否与你的观点相同你自己读了我的文章便能分晓。不过是我写的都已经都发出去了。如果你的语言好，何不写一份让支持 JAN WONG 的声援信让大家一起签名后再发给联邦和魁省总理及环球邮报，岂不更好？:p
Post by deland
能不能带我一个玩，要是你写的对我心思，你又不嫌弃的话，可以一起签个名．
作者: xuqi20000    时间: 2006-10-4 17:52
Post by 中秋节
七君子的观点也在于此.我们应该听到不同的观点,而不是华人社会就是一个声音,因为我们不在大陆.
不同声音很多种，比方说话时突然有人放了一个臭屁，这也一种不同的声音，不想听也没办法，已经听到了，大陆也常有这样的事。
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-4 19:58
在这儿，我首先代表我及我的家人和其他和我同样遭受不公而为讨回公道的同道者们向你先谢了。

不指望靠我们的呐喊能促使政府及主流社会有什么改变；然滴水成流，随着呐喊的增多，相信政府及主流社会总有一天会正视。我们这一代是不作指望了，但或许会为我们的后代带来一丝改观。
Post by deland
多谢！看来我得仔细看看你的贴子，少数族裔大家的公平和利益，这事不能不闻不问，我们这代就这样了，压根我就没把魁北克当成我的家，也就没资格要求人家把我当成一家人来看，但有关我们下一代，在魁北克出生的，跟别人一样纳税，却跟别人不一样拥有脚下这块土地，也象JAN WONG那样被人欺侮，那可大大不好，有多大力出多大力吧，不指望写封信就有什么改观，至少要让人们知道，我们不是瞎子也不是哑巴，加拿大有相当一部分未来的纳税人是否在成年前就离开加拿大，或者享受完加拿大的教育福利就离开这里去为别的国家纳税，一定程度上取绝于加拿大当局目前对少数族裔的态度，同时也不能感情用事，信要好好写，但支持JAN WONG的声援信我是不写的，虽然我鄙视那些落井下石的，鄙视那些为了讨好当地人而伤害同胞的，鄙视那些自做聪明划清界限的，但到目前为止，我还没看出来JAN WONG的事与我有什么关系，我不认为她发表的文章就是我想说的话，甚至她的观点是对的还是错的我都不知道，但不管她的观点是对是错，如果能有充分理由说明，此事上对她的打击不是因为她的文章而是因为她是肤色的话，比方说类似文章别的族裔也有发表，但只对华裔人不容，有理有据地说出，那不论做什么事，一起到总理府门前游行示威，哥们绝不含糊．
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-4 21:42
标题: 关于星期天的 JAN WONG 声援探讨会
诸位，大家好。

综合大家的建议，现定于本星期天下午 2：00 点 在 DECARIE SQUARE MALL 聚会 （集中地点： 二楼的 ONE DOLLAR CINEMA 斜对面的韩国咖啡店）具体地点： 6900 Decarie blvd.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&country=US&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&addtohistory=&cat=&address=6900+Decarie+blvd.&city=Montreal&state=QC&zipcode=

讨论内容：根据各人自身的实际问题轻重缓急，由大家共同出谋划策；然后讨论 JAN WONG 的文章和我们不公遭遇之间的联系。

最后探讨如何避免律师的敲诈令我们的案件尽可能获得较公正的处理或裁决。

如有疑问，请 E-MAIL [email="peterpan1668@yahoo.ca"]peterpan1668@yahoo.ca[/email] 或电话联系：514 880-3485

欢迎有兴趣的朋友加入我们的讨论。



星期天见。



PETER
作者: cyanhe    时间: 2006-10-5 14:04
马克雷雷难得具有理性的一面会理解魁北克人，呵呵。本来就是，感觉大家好像是占在人家地盘上，还很理直气壮的说，我是为了自由与人权。但是也得人家的地盘同意才行吧。

虽然全球都在讲人权，但是人家少数地区不愿意，咱也是没有办法的事情。所以咱们只能用潜移默化的能量来同化他们。
打个比方，至少在我看来，如果有人到我家，看到我家里的孩子做错了事情，在我家批评我没教育好，我不管怎么样也好，肯定一样叫他走开。因为每个人都有错误存在的，光看到别人的错误看不到自己的短处，总是一种裁决者的方式这跟法西斯也没什么区别。我让你进我家门，可没让你管我家事，你可以不到我家来，我也不会干涉你在我家之外怎么样。是不是这个说法？

大家不要批我，我还是很爱国的。不过动不动把一种个人行为上升到狭隘的民族主义不太好。因为得益者和失意者都在其中，我们难道希望小人得志么？
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-10-5 14:59
Post by cyanhe
马克雷雷难得具有理性的一面会理解魁北克人，呵呵。本来就是，感觉大家好像是占在人家地盘上，还很理直气壮的说，我是为了自由与人权。但是也得人家的地盘同意才行吧。

虽然全球都在讲人权，但是人家少数地区不愿意，咱也是没有办法的事情。所以咱们只能用潜移默化的能量来同化他们。
打个比方，至少在我看来，如果有人到我家，看到我家里的孩子做错了事情，在我家批评我没教育好，我不管怎么样也好，肯定一样叫他走开。因为每个人都有错误存在的，光看到别人的错误看不到自己的短处，总是一种裁决者的方式这跟法西斯也没什么区别。我让你进我家门，可没让你管我家事，你可以不到我家来，我也不会干涉你在我家之外怎么样。是不是这个说法？

大家不要批我，我还是很爱国的。不过动不动把一种个人行为上升到狭隘的民族主义不太好。因为得益者和失意者都在其中，我们难道希望小人得志么？
说的好. 唯一遗憾, MARKLEI00同志的发言99%是理性的.
爱国或不爱国不能作为批评的依据, 就像爱吃罗卜不爱吃罗卜不能作为批评的依据一样.
就自由而言, JAN WONG, HARPER, CHAREST, 在座各位都发言了, 算是都有自由了. 就我所知,人家没动用政府封报纸,就不算迫害. 至于有的人比另外的人有更多话语权,是没办法的事.
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-10-5 19:28
vipkj写的不错.
爱国是因为cyanhe说她爱国, 我接着说爱不爱无所谓.
Jan Wong的观点是错的.  跟立场没关系. vipkj已经证明了. 说她对的, 或者是说101, 或者是说种族歧视, 或者是因为她是中国血统, 或者说言论自由, 但没一个说她的推理对.
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-10-5 21:24
Post by deland
那我瞅瞅，支持Jan Wong的观点我仔细看了，反对的没仔细看，捎带说一下，你可能有和我一样的习惯，只看对自己心思的，那些说她对的，很多人说的就是她的推理对，不信你再仔细看看．
可能吧.
借机互相吹捧一下.
咱们的讨论, 1. 理性(不激动,不感情用事), 2.存疑(不绝对), 3.强调事实, 4.尊重不同, 5.态度虚心
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-10-5 22:13
Post by vipkj
我指的代表不是Jan Wong,你仔细看看帖子已经有Pan先生代表Sinoquebec上的网民向总理等人发出支持Jan Wang的公开信，你没注意到吗？
潘先生有他的想法.
我想说一句, 曼德拉从监狱出来了, 人家问, 你为什么不是满腔仇恨? 他答, 他们关了我27年, 假如我不能忘记, 那么,我就还被他们关着.
作者: 圆明园    时间: 2006-10-5 22:44
Post by vipkj
Pan先生说的是代表Sinoquebec 上90%的华人，还要开代表会，如果你要去开会，一定把我的建议带到，多搜集点证据，写个系列报道。一篇文章已经遭到主流社会的否定，我等少数民族就是同 心戳力也不会改变局势，还是摆事实，讲道理比较好，这边的人不会不让Jan 讲理吧
哈哈
我不属于潘先生的90%, 我是这个贴里头一个反对JAN WONG的文章的.
JAN WONG在中国也是个有争议的人物, 她的神洲怨(red china blue)在中国是禁书.
作者: 牛鬼蛇神    时间: 2006-10-5 22:52
小小寰球，有几个苍蝇碰壁。
嗡嗡叫，几声凄厉，几声抽泣。
蚂蚁缘槐夸大国，蚍蜉撼树谈何易。
正西风落叶下长安，飞鸣镝。

我手提一只破锣，用被硫酸泼过的嗓子高喊：运动啦！！！
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-6 00:31
两位文人隐士反对或支持 JAN WONG 这是你们的选择；但借此对他人指名道姓的攻击疾风恐怕不是正道文人所取的。

你有你的选择，便不准他人表示不同的观点？况且断章取义，无中生有，更振振有词的说甚么"an先生说的是代表Sinoquebec 上90%的华人"，“我不属于潘先生的90%”云云；不知两位高人依据哪个“古书堆”里之宏论得出如此出色的断论？

今天 s.laurent 开 [让我们支持 JAN WONG] 这个坛不是给我们在这儿打嘴皮仗的。如果两位想消遣鄙人，不妨另开一坛，待鄙人决定是否需要对仗不迟而无需将该坛的主题引至千里之外。

支持 JAN WONG 观点的可以凭事实以证据服众；反对 JAN WONG 观点的亦可举事列去证明其推理是错误的，过激的。然靠攻击他人来转移主题的手法实在不可取。

本人行不改名，坐不改姓，从来对自己的言行负责，亦无需象某些人以形形色色的化名在网上随心所欲的对他人说三道四，指点江山。

最后，这星期天的聚会的参与者大都是在移民路上受到挫折而自发，并借此互相鼓励提携的同路人，两位不动善心没有关系，然不必在他人伤疤上补刀撒盐。
Post by 圆明园
哈哈
我不属于潘先生的90%, 我是这个贴里头一个反对JAN WONG的文章的.
JAN WONG在中国也是个有争议的人物, 她的神洲怨(red china blue)在中国是禁书.


vipkjPan先生说的是代表Sinoquebec 上90%的华人，还要开代表会，如果你要去开会，一定把我的建议带到，多搜集点证据，写个系列报道。一篇文章已经遭到主流社会的否定，我等少数民族就是同心戳力也不会改变局势，还是摆事实，讲道理比较好，这边的人不会不让Jan 讲理吧
作者: qcsnowman    时间: 2006-10-6 00:47
Is it Ms. Jane Wong, at the Globe and Mail?
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-6 00:51
补充声明：本人给联邦及魁省总理的信只是代表我个人，而鄙人向两级政府的投诉亦不是今天才开始的。故化名【vipkj】及【圆明园】的两位文人隐士实在应该查证一下鄙人的具名再表态撇清不迟，本人从来无意把你们硬扯在里面一起跟我淌这趟浑水。
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-6 02:41
这个帖子不是我开的，然持反对意见的在这帖子里数得出来；说它 HOT, 从短短时间已经达到了 5，000 人次多的电击率；再看看各中文媒体关于 JAN WONG 此文引起的评论报道，想来亦不需再和你多作解释了。本人贴的支持 JAN WONG 的文章是我以我个人名义给黄明珍及环球邮报传真信，如果你恐怕本人冒众人名义，不妨直接向环球邮报求证。

JAN WONG 或 黄明珍， 如果不是无意中浏览到 【让我们支持 JAN WONG】的帖子，或许今天本人仍然对其人及她的 “GET UNDER DESK" 一无所知，更谈不上支持或反对她的观点。本人之所以支持她的观点是根据本人在魁省二十年走过来的移民经历及其他同路人在向我咨询信息中陈述的种种不幸遭遇所感受到的不公事例为依据的；而本人的不公经历均有充分的证据；本人的实例在网上早已公开。

就本人而言，支持黄明珍并不是出于我的善心，而是其推理和担忧恰恰是本人经历现身说法的翻版。既然有我这样的实例，难道便没有另外相似的实例吗？因此你怎么便臆断她在写此文时就没有任何依据？而你仅凭臆想武断的推论我等对其的支持只是出于善心，并荒谬地断论我们的支持是对其不正确的误导，更令其例正确的道路上越走越远；然仅仅就你对其的批评才是善意的？！看来即便上帝都应该考虑主动让贤了。

PETER PAN 也好，潘振国亦罢都是本人的真名。至于Kang 充其量只是几个拼音字母组合而已，而隐士的大名实在不须多加探讨了。

就此加以句点，不想再和你有任何无谓的争论。
Post by vipkj
Since your article published, it became a hot subject in our Chinese society. Just from www.sinoquebec.com/bbs the thread of 让我们支持Jan Wong ( 1 2 3 ) , it brought us join with this great discussion. And I realized, more than 90% of Chinese are stand your side since you said truth, which no one wants to really talking about especially with Medias.

这是您说的吧?
没人不让您发表观点.我说过不让您发表观点吗?圆明园说过吗?请找出来.
没人想跟你打嘴皮仗,也没有人想攻击你,说句话您别生气,和您打仗没有意义.请找出我攻击您的句子.
就事论事是我本人主张观点,
支持 JAN WONG 观点的可以凭事实以证据服众；反对 JAN WONG 观点的亦可举事列去证明其推理是错误的，
这句话我最支持!请Pan同学回答Jan Wong的文章里那些是证据,那些是分析,让我们回到主题当中.
本人同样是坐不更名站不改姓,可以告诉您俺姓Kang,
Jan Wong不需要别人动善心去支持她,她需要用自己的行动找出证据来证明自己的正确.
不正确的支持Jan Wong 的方法,只能让她离正确的道路越走越远,我所提供的善意批评是想帮助她,我希望华人能够在主流媒体中有自己的声音。
作者: peterpan1668    时间: 2006-10-6 02:51
同学的尊称实在不敢，鄙人尚无天分亦无缘拜入你的名下成为你的学子，来世是否有缘全仗天意了。
Post by vipkj
Pan同学,不是我批评您,您把您对两级政府的投诉贴在这里,我当然以为您是为支持Wong同学向两级政府写的信了.
还有我再三的表明,我坚决支持你和Jan为反种族歧视所做的工作,只是对你们的工作方法和内容不敢苟同.再说一遍Jan的文章已经遭到主流社会的反对,坚持是没有用的,拿出证据才是唯一出路.
我实在嗓子发干,




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