Post by kimly;2732886
本人做了6年的小店,深知大家生存的艰辛,虽然几个月前卖了店,但仍感觉自己是大家中的一员。就各位兄弟与帝国的战争,本人有几点忠言。
1 从目前的局势来分析,广大便利店与帝国的战争注定是旷日持久的,大家要有心理准备。可能不是递交一两封抗议信、谈判一两次,搞几次抵制行动就能让帝国低头的。各个店应根据自己的实际情况调整好经营策略,在与帝国抗争的同时,也要确保自己的店能正常运转,毕竟生存第一位,大家都不容易,大家应相互理解。抗争中有人积极些、主动些,有人胆怯些、有人懦弱些,都是可以理解的。还有在抵制的行动中,头脑要清醒、理智,不希望作出一些偏激行为,给自己家庭及远在国内的亲人带来不幸。
2 加拿大是一个法制社会,这可能也是当初我们选择来加拿大定居的原因之一。大家在为自己的正当权益抗争时,无论成功与否,请不要放弃法律武器。虽然司法程序非常复杂、冗长,但毕竟是值得等待的。大家也许会想像帝国这样的大公司,财大气粗,早就养了一大群御用律师为其钻法律漏洞,为其擦屁股。这的确是事实,从最近帝国给安省韩国便利店协会的回信中,也证实了这一点(法律规定零售商不得向消费者直接推荐某一种香烟),网上大家的抵制行动中似乎有类似行为,请不要让帝国抓到明显的证据。但并非帝国的策略就是无暇可击的,因为多年来,帝国为追求利益,也是劣迹斑斑,丑行不断,官司缠身。如2008年因走私香烟被课以5.5亿加元的重罚、几年前因抛弃批发商而被COSTCO等起诉,安省政府索赔500亿加元等,说明帝国目前的措施并不一定是完全合法的。个人认为大家可留意联邦及魁省的烟草法、联邦竞争法等。主要有如下几个:
1 联邦烟草法(Tobacco Act)
2 魁省烟草税法(obacco Tax Act, R.S.Q. c.)
3 魁省烟草法(Tobacco Act)
4 魁省烟草新规定
5 联邦竞争法。
可以从中找到一些有用的条款。大家可收集在与帝国打交道的过程中一些有用的证据,如是否曾按销量给回扣,在推广新烟时是否给过礼品,是否强迫性定价,此次事件中的合同、信函等,可从违反烟草销售法规和违反竞争法(价格歧视、歧视性价格补贴、胁迫定价、市场垄断)两个方向进行指控。当然,大家也借机对比法律,检点自己是否有不规范行为,避免被帝国抓住把柄。
3 巧妙利用控烟组织。大家当然不愿与它沾惹上,它目前也不会站出来放啥屁。但一段时间后,情形会改变。因为在这次事件后(如半年或一年,可浏览帝国网站或其股票),帝国的烟草销量可能会出现三种情形:1)大幅度上升;2)明显减少;3)基本持平。后两种情况说明帝国的策略有问题,它自己就可能找台阶下。第一种情况是我们大家最不愿意接受的,也是控烟组织不希望见到的。那时,它应会主动找帝国的茬子,否则就是严重失职。
Post by kimly;2734539
以下是联邦烟草法中关于promotion的条款,请l留意第29条注意黑体部分
Tobacco Act (1997, c. 13)
Act current to October 30th, 2010
PROMOTION
Definition of “promotion”
18. (1) In this Part, “promotion” means a representation about a product or service by any means, whether directly or indirectly, including any communication of information about a product or service and its price and distribution, that is likely to influence and shape attitudes, beliefs and behaviours about the product or service.
Application
(2) This Part does not apply to
(a) a literary, dramatic, musical, cinematographic, scientific, educational or artistic work, production or performance that uses or depicts a tobacco product or tobacco product-related brand element, whatever the mode or form of its expression, if no consideration is given directly or indirectly for that use or depiction in the work, production or performance;
(b) a report, commentary or opinion in respect of a tobacco product or a brand of tobacco product if no consideration is given by a manufacturer or retailer, directly or indirectly, for the reference to the tobacco product or brand in that report, commentary or opinion; or
(c) a promotion by a tobacco grower or a manufacturer that is directed at tobacco growers, manufacturers, persons who distribute tobacco products or retailers but not, either directly or indirectly, at consumers.
Prohibition
19. No person shall promote a tobacco product or a tobacco product-related brand element except as authorized by this Act or the regulations.
False promotion
20. No person shall promote a tobacco product by any means, including by means of the packaging, that are false, misleading or deceptive or that are likely to create an erroneous impression about the characteristics, health effects or health hazards of the tobacco product or its emissions.
Testimonials or endorsements
21. (1) No person shall promote a tobacco product by means of a testimonial or an endorsement, however displayed or communicated.
Depiction of person
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), the depiction of a person, character or animal, whether real or fictional, is considered to be a testimonial for, or an endorsement of, the product.
Exception
(3) This section does not apply to a trade-mark that appeared on a tobacco product for sale in Canada on December 2, 1996.
Advertising
22. (1) Subject to this section, no person shall promote a tobacco product by means of an advertisement that depicts, in whole or in part, a tobacco product, its package or a brand element of one or that evokes a tobacco product or a brand element.
Exception
(2) Subject to the regulations, a person may advertise a tobacco product by means of information advertising or brand-preference advertising that is in
(a) a publication that is provided by mail and addressed to an adult who is identified by name; or
(b) [Repealed, 2009, c. 27, s. 11]
(c) signs in a place where young persons are not permitted by law.
Lifestyle advertising
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to lifestyle advertising or advertising that could be construed on reasonable grounds to be appealing to young persons.
Definitions
(4) The definitions in this subsection apply in this section.
“brand-preference advertising”
« publicité préférentielle »
“brand-preference advertising” means advertising that promotes a tobacco product by means of its brand characteristics.
“information advertising”
« publicité informative »
“information advertising” means advertising that provides factual information to the consumer about
(a) a product and its characteristics; or
(b) the availability or price of a product or brand of product.
“lifestyle advertising”
« publicité de style de vie »
“lifestyle advertising” means advertising that associates a product with, or evokes a positive or negative emotion about or image of, a way of life such as one that includes glamour, recreation, excitement, vitality, risk or daring.
1997, c. 13, s. 22; 2009, c. 27, s. 11.
Packaging
23. No person shall package a tobacco product in a manner that is contrary to this Act or the regulations.
Prohibited additives — packaging
23.1 (1) No person shall package a tobacco product set out in column 2 of the schedule in a manner that suggests, including through illustrations, that it contains an additive set out in column 1.
Prohibition — sale
(2) No person shall sell a tobacco product set out in column 2 of the schedule that is packaged in a manner prohibited by subsection (1).
2009, c. 27, s. 12.
Prohibition — sponsorship promotion
24. No person may display a tobacco product-related brand element or the name of a tobacco manufacturer in a promotion that is used, directly or indirectly, in the sponsorship of a person, entity, event, activity or permanent facility.
1997, c. 13, s. 24; 1998, c. 38, s. 1.
Prohibition — name of facility
25. No person may display a tobacco product-related brand element or the name of a tobacco manufacturer on a permanent facility, as part of the name of the facility or otherwise, if the tobacco product-related brand element or name is thereby associated with a sports or cultural event or activity.
1997, c. 13, s. 25; 1998, c. 38, s. 2.
Accessories
26. (1) Subject to the regulations, a manufacturer or retailer may sell an accessory that displays a tobacco product-related brand element.
Promotion
(2) No person shall promote an accessory that displays a tobacco product-related brand element except in the prescribed manner and form and in a publication or place described in paragraphs 22(2)(a) and (c).
1997, c. 13, s. 26; 2009, c. 27, s. 13.
Non-tobacco product displaying tobacco brand element
27. No person shall furnish or promote a tobacco product if any of its brand elements is displayed on a non-tobacco product, other than an accessory, or is used with a service, if the non-tobacco product or service
(a) is associated with young persons or could be construed on reasonable grounds to be appealing to young persons; or
(b) is associated with a way of life such as one that includes glamour, recreation, excitement, vitality, risk or daring.
Exception — tobacco product
28. (1) Subject to the regulations, a person may sell a tobacco product, or advertise a tobacco product in accordance with section 22, if any of its brand elements is displayed on a non-tobacco product, other than an accessory, or used with a service, if the non-tobacco product or service does not fall within the criteria described in paragraphs 27(a) and (b).
Exception — non-tobacco product
(2) Subject to the regulations, a person may promote a non-tobacco product, other than an accessory, that displays a tobacco product-related brand element, or a service that uses a tobacco product-related brand element, to which section 27 does not apply.
Sales promotions
29. No manufacturer or retailer shall
(a) offer or provide any consideration, direct or indirect, for the purchase of a tobacco product, including a gift to a purchaser or a third party, bonus, premium, cash rebate or right to participate in a game, lottery or contest;
(b) furnish a tobacco product without monetary consideration or in consideration of the purchase of a product or service or the performance of a service; or
(c) furnish an accessory that bears a tobacco product-related brand element without monetary consideration or in consideration of the purchase of a product or service or the performance of a service.
Retail display of tobacco products
30. (1) Subject to the regulations, any person may display, at retail, a tobacco product or an accessory that displays a tobacco product-related brand element.
Signs
(2) A retailer of tobacco products may post, in accordance with the regulations, signs at retail that indicate the availability of tobacco products and their price.
Communication media
31. (1) No person shall, on behalf of another person, with or without consideration, publish, broadcast or otherwise disseminate any promotion that is prohibited by this Part.
Post by tonight;2734636
用法律武器战胜他们是最正确的,如果需要准备的时间较长,能不能请人在报纸上写点文章呢,我们就讨论一下,根据竞争法,烟草法,帝国这样做到底犯法了吗,说不定,很多牛人会告诉我们他们的弱点。说不定我们都不用请律师出面。
有舆论了,他们的压力更大。
Post by 幸福快乐每一天;2734837
潜水很久了,实在忍不住说两句。现在我们小店能做的就是打击他的销量,特别是新烟,这是他们的痛中之痛,找律师游行什么的是没用的。他们不会在乎。找媒体很可能会起到反作用。
Post by 心@随;2734931
同意。
加拿大司法程序漫长,赖昌星遣送了10年不还在加拿大吗。
OKBA违法了,帝国为什么不把它送上法庭。还给它发什么信啊,去告它等法院给他发传票不就完了。
帝国是烟草生产商,我们是经销商。双方都希望自己的利益最大化。他希望我们低价卖他的产品,提高他的占有率。我们希望提高我们的利润率。双方肯定有矛盾。现在帝国和OKBA的行动,只是为了以后谈判的时候给自己争取更有利的解决方案。
找律师游行找媒体干什么?告诉人家13%的利润率太低,我们要17%?告诉人家我们生存不下去了?没人会信,至少大家不还有个店吗。
开店的看来有些是第一次干BUSINESS,头脑幼稚得可笑:wink:
感谢KIMLY对我的法律普及。为了不让帝国抓住把柄。以后不认识的客人我不会推销NEXT,店里数个客人我也不会推销NEXT。但我会继续推销NEXT,在我认为安全的时候:)
Post by prysmj;2734941
农民就是农民。
可笑的是你自己吧。媒体不参与,不靠法律手段,就靠你老自己据说的单干,弄到最后,帝国不会翻,你自己先翻了关门。加拿大普通商品零售商的利润的正常值应该是25% - 45%之间(一些特殊商品,比如药品零售是80%左右的利润,电器75%左右),加拿大民众都能接受,可到了你这里,你以为你那13%就很赚钱了,就偷着乐,那是你自己的事情。但你也应该知道,不是每个开店的都是农民。
Post by 心@随;2734989
13%是烟合同的利润率
“加拿大普通商品零售商的利润的正常值应该是25% - 45%之间。电器有75%利润率?药80%?”
你是火星叔叔马丁吧?还是你是农民啊?就听说过蔬菜水果利润率高,是因为可能有损耗。
您的酒是什么利润率啊?25%-45%?我去你那拉12、18的吧。蒙特利尔还真没见过能把酒卖到这水平的。
电器75%???哥们你卖的电器纸糊的吧?BESTBUY卖的IPAD我估计苹果不会一百多卖给他。
可以夸张,但您也太有才了。
Post by prysmj;2734992
农民就是农民,呵呵。看你老的话,45%就把你吓得尿裤,还什么“估计苹果不会100多卖给它”。
您继续当你的农民,我的酒你可以来拉,要多少有多少,谁让我不歧视农民呢。
Post by prysmj;2735011
电器的利润和高科技新的利润率是不同的。高科技新产品,如苹果公司的IPAD,在大投入的广告宣传后,实际上已经在人群中产生了很强的期待心理,由于没有其他产品在同时期内能与其竞争,所以实际上已经产生了垄断性价格,市场需求很强,量很大,形成明显的卖方市场,在这种情况下,高科技公司的生产商是爷,零售商是孙子,巴不得多拿几部手机来卖,生产商让给零售商的利润率就很小,你零售商爱卖不卖,就这个价格给你。所以高科技就这么赚钱,所以现在叫高科技时代。但即使这样的情况下,零售商的利润也不会小于50%。
而其他普通电器产品,如炉头冰箱洗衣机等,由于市场很大的竞争性和替代性,而人群期待性以及消费量上,和高科技新产品又差很远,零售商是肯定要实现它的普通电器的80%左右的零售利润的。
懂了吗农民大伯?
Post by prysmj;2735011
电器的利润和高科技新的利润率是不同的。高科技新产品,如苹果公司的IPAD,在大投入的广告宣传后,实际上已经在人群中产生了很强的期待心理,由于没有其他产品在同时期内能与其竞争,所以实际上已经产生了垄断性价格,市场需求很强,量很大,形成明显的卖方市场,在这种情况下,高科技公司的生产商是爷,零售商是孙子,巴不得多拿几部手机来卖,生产商让给零售商的利润率就很小,你零售商爱卖不卖,就这个价格给你。所以高科技就这么赚钱,所以现在叫高科技时代。但即使这样的情况下,零售商的利润也不会小于50%。
而其他普通电器产品,如炉头冰箱洗衣机等,由于市场很大的竞争性和替代性,而人群期待性以及消费量上,和高科技新产品又差很远,零售商是肯定要实现它的普通电器的80%左右的零售利润的。
懂了吗农民大伯?
Post by kimly;2735085
有一点想法:其实便利店人士在魁北克华人社区是一个很重要的群体,至少在华人社区是很有影响力的。在魁北克从事律师及相关工作的华人应该明白,提高社会知名度对律师职业很重要。此时若能站出来关注一下,进行一些咨询,提供一些法律建议,应不是太困难的事。无论是否真正有效,至少可以在华人心目中留下印象,形成不少潜在客户。效果肯定比在报纸上卖广告好得多,为何不试试?
Post by 幸福快乐每一天;2734837
潜水很久了,实在忍不住说两句。现在我们小店能做的就是打击他的销量,特别是新烟,这是他们的痛中之痛,找律师游行什么的是没用的。他们不会在乎。找媒体很可能会起到反作用。
Post by 幸福快乐每一天;2735052
这个prysmj和007,mmisland是不是都是一个人,强烈鄙视,快滚吧,别再丢人现眼了。
Post by prysmj;2735011
电器的利润和高科技新的利润率是不同的。高科技新产品,如苹果公司的IPAD,在大投入的广告宣传后,实际上已经在人群中产生了很强的期待心理,由于没有其他产品在同时期内能与其竞争,所以实际上已经产生了垄断性价格,市场需求很强,量很大,形成明显的卖方市场,在这种情况下,高科技公司的生产商是爷,零售商是孙子,巴不得多拿几部手机来卖,生产商让给零售商的利润率就很小,你零售商爱卖不卖,就这个价格给你。所以高科技就这么赚钱,所以现在叫高科技时代。但即使这样的情况下,零售商的利润也不会小于50%。
而其他普通电器产品,如炉头冰箱洗衣机等,由于市场很大的竞争性和替代性,而人群期待性以及消费量上,和高科技新产品又差很远,零售商是肯定要实现它的普通电器的80%左右的零售利润的。
懂了吗农民大伯?
Post by kimly;2735085
mmisland:
我不姓李,我姓王,住在东镇区。开了5、6年小店,深深理解小店主个中之酸甜苦辣,几个月前卖了店。开便利店虽然艰难,但它毕竟是一个个华人家庭在魁北克安身立命的经济支柱。真希望还在开店的兄弟们能挺过难关,日子过得一天比一天好。没有什么能帮助大家的,只好摘抄一些法律条文,大家一起来讨论,集思广益,看是否有可能寻找有用的法律依据。另外,大家在非常时期,也要谨慎行事,不要惹上不必要的麻烦,最好在合法前提下展开行动。至少,像某些朋友说的那样,在此贴出那些法律条文,可以起到普法作用。
Yannick:希望更多的人士像你一样,多多向政府有关部门咨询,以搞清心中的法律疑团。除竞争局外,烟控组织、税局都可咨询。一点一点弄明白,才好决定下一步如何进行。
有一点想法:其实便利店人士在魁北克华人社区是一个很重要的群体,至少在华人社区是很有影响力的。在魁北克从事律师及相关工作的华人应该明白,提高社会知名度对律师职业很重要。此时若能站出来关注一下,进行一些咨询,提供一些法律建议,应不是太困难的事。无论是否真正有效,至少可以在华人心目中留下印象,形成不少潜在客户。效果肯定比在报纸上卖广告好得多,为何不试试?
Post by kimly;2735085
mmisland:
我不姓李,我姓王,住在东镇区。开了5、6年小店,深深理解小店主个中之酸甜苦辣,几个月前卖了店。开便利店虽然艰难,但它毕竟是一个个华人家庭在魁北克安身立命的经济支柱。真希望还在开店的兄弟们能挺过难关,日子过得一天比一天好。没有什么能帮助大家的,只好摘抄一些法律条文,大家一起来讨论,集思广益,看是否有可能寻找有用的法律依据。另外,大家在非常时期,也要谨慎行事,不要惹上不必要的麻烦,最好在合法前提下展开行动。至少,像某些朋友说的那样,在此贴出那些法律条文,可以起到普法作用。
Yannick:希望更多的人士像你一样,多多向政府有关部门咨询,以搞清心中的法律疑团。除竞争局外,烟控组织、税局都可咨询。一点一点弄明白,才好决定下一步如何进行。
有一点想法:其实便利店人士在魁北克华人社区是一个很重要的群体,至少在华人社区是很有影响力的。在魁北克从事律师及相关工作的华人应该明白,提高社会知名度对律师职业很重要。此时若能站出来关注一下,进行一些咨询,提供一些法律建议,应不是太困难的事。无论是否真正有效,至少可以在华人心目中留下印象,形成不少潜在客户。效果肯定比在报纸上卖广告好得多,为何不试试?
Post by kimly;2735085
mmisland:
我不姓李,我姓王,住在东镇区。开了5、6年小店,深深理解小店主个中之酸甜苦辣,几个月前卖了店。开便利店虽然艰难,但它毕竟是一个个华人家庭在魁北克安身立命的经济支柱。真希望还在开店的兄弟们能挺过难关,日子过得一天比一天好。没有什么能帮助大家的,只好摘抄一些法律条文,大家一起来讨论,集思广益,看是否有可能寻找有用的法律依据。另外,大家在非常时期,也要谨慎行事,不要惹上不必要的麻烦,最好在合法前提下展开行动。至少,像某些朋友说的那样,在此贴出那些法律条文,可以起到普法作用。
Yannick:希望更多的人士像你一样,多多向政府有关部门咨询,以搞清心中的法律疑团。除竞争局外,烟控组织、税局都可咨询。一点一点弄明白,才好决定下一步如何进行。
有一点想法:其实便利店人士在魁北克华人社区是一个很重要的群体,至少在华人社区是很有影响力的。在魁北克从事律师及相关工作的华人应该明白,提高社会知名度对律师职业很重要。此时若能站出来关注一下,进行一些咨询,提供一些法律建议,应不是太困难的事。无论是否真正有效,至少可以在华人心目中留下印象,形成不少潜在客户。效果肯定比在报纸上卖广告好得多,为何不试试?
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