montrealpost

Everything that follows WILL VOID YOUR GUARANTEE from ALL manufacturers.  Try them at your own risk!

All manufacturers are against all that follows, as most will set their wine off-balance, or off their specification(s).  Brew-masters and wine-masters are all upset.

Well, it'll be your wine  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

iMP

* If u've never made wine, u will NOT understand.  If u've made regular  kit, u may still not understand till u have the grape pack in your  hand. *

结果导致（......续）:
4.  因为新增葡萄包，大部分新的酿酒设备，改用更大的桶 for Primary Fermentation。(Not sure, may be something like old ~35L bucket ==> 45L bucket)
(if u have old regular bucket, be careful with 12L; do not do 18L on hot summer days, WILL overflow.)
5.  A lot of people switch over to Grape Pack Kits, then do 2nd run with used Grape Packs.
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Today most wine kits manufacturers carry Grape Pack kits.  Besides regular instruction (i.e. pour content of Grape Pack into disinfected mesh bag included in kit), u can:
1.  tie beer/coffee mug(s) to mesh bag to "sink" the bag (instead of floating all the time); or (my last trial with 2 coffee mugs was insufficient)

2.  use the stirring spoon to "hold down" the bag; (I can't get this to work myself)

3.  pour entire Grape Pack into the must in primary bucket on day 1, right before adding yeast pack.
[This method is completely messy when u transfer on ~Day 7. Forget siphoning, it will not work due to too much solids inside must.  I borrowed a conical strainer from a professional kitchen(~picture below), found it too messy, not worth my trouble. Forget using Funnel with Strainer in picture below also, too "light duty".]
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How to do 2nd run:
1.  Right after siphoning/transferring must from Primary to Secondary, just start your next batch right away in same bucket, no washing nothing.  Skip the yeast in new batch, the yeast left in Grape Pack is more than sufficient.  Do prepare for a much faster fermentation, could be as quick as 2-3 days in Summer hot days.

2.  If not starting 2nd batch right away, put used Grape Pack into disinfected freezer bag and freeze it right away.  Whenever u want to use it, bring it back to room temperature before throwing it into new batch.  I haven't try this, not sure . . . .
a.  Freezing will weaken yeast in used Grape Pack, not sure if it will be sufficient to start a new batch.
b.  If it were me, I would wait till new batch start fermenting before putting in defrosted Grape Pack.  Same yeast would be better.
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My Results:
I've only tried CC 18L and CC 12L Grape Pack kits, red only.  I don't have the breakdown of the 18L now, but the grape pack is 2-3 times the size of 12L.  The used Grape Pack from 18L Amaroni did significantly improved the 7.5L Valpolicella, brought the Valpolicella quality above all 12L kits.  This Valpolicella Ripasso is a classic combination and worked out EXTREMELY well.  Other trials were less favorable, other 18L only brought 5L up to a 9L quality (only tried 2 others).
(Everyone who knew about this did the Valpolicella Ripasso, there were so many of us that actually brought up the price of Valpolicella kits)

CC 12L consists of 10.5L must and 1.5L grape pack.  The used Grape Pack from 12L did bring 5L kit up to ~8L quality.  It did improved Costco PL kits, both color and body but insignificant to Costco AR kits.

***** Quality of grape juice/kits vary every year, MY results is for reference only, it MAY NOT be the same for u! *****
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MP 这"自酿"系列的帖子 - 不回答问题, 欢迎更正/补充内容！

upupup

借题问一下，哪里买酿酒设备？
无知的我在costco买了wine kit，才知道需要自己酿的:eek!:！

john000

在大家还在琢磨怎么把酒酿的平衡，MP已经玩不平衡了。敬佩！

iMP

朋友问为什么我的 Costco 酒做得比他的好  。  。  。  。  。  ;)

这已是 n 多年前的事了，话说想当年 :p ，海洋省的一个祖母级的女士在 RJS网站上建议/提倡在做 wine kit 时，添加大约8〜10香蕉。这个做法，众说分云 ，酒更好啦, 加 body 啦 。  。  。  。  。  之类之类的，总之酒会变得更好就是啦。很多人跑去 Costco 买便宜的 wine kit 试。海洋省香蕉王后 (The Banana Queen) 之名一时无两。是玩酒的，没有人不知道她的，包括我自己， 哈！

做法：- 超熟香蕉 8〜10个（许多梅花点点的那种），洗净拭干香蕉，放入保鲜袋 (freezer bag)，然后冻结~ or >三天(to increase Pectic Enzyme and decrease haze)，然后解冻，（像挤牙膏似的）加入刚开始的 wine kit 里面 (right after adding water on Day 1)，蕉皮扔掉。~Day 7 Syphon 时，香蕉肉差不多全部溶解，留在桶里，不入carboy。（香蕉大小可以有很大的不同，从来没人说过 "正确的量"，大家都在玩 "差不多游戏"。）

然后呢  。  。  。  。  。  约一两年后，蒙城搬来了一个大帅哥 (碰巧我认识他) ，这个帅哥听完香蕉王后的故事，马上跑上网宣扬他家的加葡萄干做法，两派人在网上唇枪舌战 n个月。终于双方同意 两种方法都添加酒体厚度(add wine body)，加香蕉可让酒提前饮用，加葡萄干需要等待更长的时间。期间帅哥收过死亡威胁，另加所有 wine kit 生产厂家在网上狂扁，之类之类的  。。。。。帅哥几年前换工作搬走了。

做法：- 一磅 Sunmaid 葡萄干 (from Costco) 随便切碎（切葡萄干时 必须保持很卫生很干净，不要切得太碎，太碎的话，~Day 7 Syphon 时很麻烦），加入刚开始的 wine kit 里面 (right after adding water on day one) 。~Day 7 Syphon 时，葡萄干留在桶里，不入carboy。

结果导致:
1.    现在还有很多人买便宜的 wine kit, 然后加超熟香蕉 3〜5个, 再加切碎葡萄干半磅。全部够傻瓜的说！
2.    几年前，制造商开始卖带有（湿）葡萄包的 wine kits (= wine kit with grape pack = Grape Skin Kits)。
3.    我呢, 玩够啦, 还是听生产商说的，想要更好的葡萄酒，买更好（=更昂贵）的 wine kit。

加葡萄干呢，我可以尝到葡萄干的味道，不喜欢。加香蕉呢，太多的话，又变成奇异香蕉酒，不喜欢。楼下#2楼写的，加2杯糖加1％酒精，也玩过，酒是真的有丁丁不平衡。我喝酒玩，不是寻醉，不适合我。

Post by montrealpost;2117723
    。   。   。   。   。An (old) article in explaining the difference in different levels of wine  kits, i.e. 5/7.5/10/12/15/16/18/23L concentrate/ pasteurized juice to  make 23L of wine.  When u have time, u can read Big Kits @ www.winemakermag.com/component/resource/article/90-big-kits-wine-kits.

备注：楼下左图是在加拿大常见的葡萄干，Costco 卖大包装, ~= 大多数人使用。右图 Zante Currants 是一种酿酒葡萄 晒干的，效果会比较好，但仅在美国销售。
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MP 这"自酿"系列的帖子 - 不回答问题, 欢迎更正/补充内容！

montrealpost

Paklab wine kits from Costco no longer include oak.  Paklab used to include 30-35 grams for Red, 15-20 grams for White wine.  All fully toasted, not sure French or Hungarian, or was it American?! :p   I normally double the quantity.

The buttery taste in California Chardonnay is from Oak, not grapes.  Like cooking, there are certain "rules", then there's no rule for what to add.  Your taste 啦!!   

Oak cubes/chips/dusts/++; then toasted/semi-toasted/++ .  . . .  :cool:   Top of the line is Starvin Oak cubes, friends buy them from web.

Oak Alternatives @ http://www.winemakermag.com/comp ... 02-oak-alternatives
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[color="Red"]这"自酿"系列的帖子 - 不回答问题, 欢迎更正内容！

montrealpost

White Zinfandel is a classic in Rose.  Today, there are White Merlot, +++.  All Rose are served cold, hence keep them in refrigerator.

Rose can be blended from white and red wine. Besides article below, search web for more stories/resources.

Blending Red and White: Tips from the Pros @ http://winemakermag.com/stories/ ... -tips-from-the-pros

montrealpost

#9 addition:  The logic behind making 20L in bigger container may work is that there's a blanket of CO2 that's created during fermentation.  CO2 should really sit right above the must.

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Wine kits come in different sizes, but all are designed to make into 23L of wine.

Not often, but here and there, I've heard about BOP(=Brew on Premise) or wine stores in North America suggesting people to take a 7.5L or smaller concentrate and make it into 20L, instead of 23L per manufacturer's instruction.  Suggesting a fuller body wine, just by adding LESS water to kit.  Manufacturers are all against it as the final product will not be the way they design it; it will be off balance.

I know it's being done, tried it on Costco wine, didn't like it.  PERSONALLY, I prefer the lighter but cleaner taste when it's 23L.  Wine is a personal thing, u have to try it for yourself!

montrealpost

有一次 难得地碰上JeanTalon 的白头伯伯 好心情, MP 认真地问, 白头伯伯认真地想了好几分钟, 答案:  不可以。 (永远的 正确答案)
MP的问题： When primary is done, seal bucket with lid+airlock for secondary? (~1" of air space below the lid)
(Never ask the question about using 23L to make 20L, way too much air space.  Everyone will treat u as an idiot.)

In reality  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。  。 some people do it!
I don't recommend the following methods, but for those of u who only do 1x20L once in a few years . . . .  .

A.  20L Bucket
-  After frozen must be defrosted,
-  use a sterile measuring cup to dish out some of the juice into a sanitized container (2-4L), put into fridge,
(above is to avoid overflow during fermentation)
- wait a few days (after the fermentation starts to slow down),
- pour the refrigerated juice(at room temperature) back into bucket,
- after 7/10 days, put lid on with airlock+bung.
(My friend's father drilled a hole in lid for me; if u have proper equipment, only takes 1 minute.)

B.  23L Carboy
-  After frozen must(=juice)  is defrosted,
-  pour the complete bucket inside carboy,
-  primary+secondary fermentation all in carboy,
-  if u don't care much about your wine, u can let it clear inside carboy. Just let carboy rest in cool area for 1 month after fermentation stopped.
(Don't use this method to make kit, u'll never get all the SO2 out, gassy, extremely gassy!!)

MP爱酒如命, 绝对不会这样做。

montrealpost

酿酒葡萄和葡萄汁 特价的帖子, 网管删除了, 网管真勤奋!  :p  $10/36lb 的酿酒葡萄 哪里买？ 问网管, 不要问我。  先写这两个  。  。  。

During season or when we find wine making grapes on sales:
A.  wash and dry,
B.  put into freezer bag, ~5-7lbs., then into freezer(if u don't use it right away)
C.  after your wine kit STARTS fermentation,
1.  squash the defrosted pack of grapes inside freezer bag,
2.  put mesh bag over your bucket, (similar to 笼布, but much smaller holes, I guess)
3.  pour the squashed grapes + juice into mesh bag, (1,2 or 3 packs, your choice)
4.  tie a knot on your mesh bag,
5.  punch down the bag two or three times a day (or tie a heavy mug to help keep the bag below the surface)
6.  remove bag when primary is done.
7.  gently squeeze bag, don't squeeze it too hard.  You may have problem clearing when there's too much pectin.
(few days inside the bucket is sufficient)

Pros:
- let the yeast have something to chew on ==> removes "Kit Taste" (ONLY for those who notice it)
- add a bit more color to kit

Pros/Cons (depends on u):
- grape skin adds tannin
- most likely the juice will dilute your kit (=lighter, as most wine grapes in Montreal are lower quality ones)
- final volume of wine will be over 23L, have additional container(s) ready for secondary fermentation ready.

Some people don't use mesh bag, but pour the whole thing through a good strainer, after primary.  
Don't try to siphon(=rack) with floating squashed grapes, guarantee u will regret it.