wu808

It should be http://www.stm.info/en-bref/R-037.pdf with no# 69
This is French for STM.

For STL it has the english version.
http://www.stl.laval.qc.ca/documents/BY-LAW-CA-8.pdf

The no is 54

Post by hangzhou62
Could you please provide the link. I searched www.stm.info website and cannot find it. The by-laws part is in French: http://www.stm.info/English/en-bref/a-reglements.htm

It's no use to guess if to rent/resell the monthly pass is legel or not. The best way is to find the official definition.

Thanks!

xiaodoudou

Post by leon
我觉得两个或多人用一张月票应该不能叫钻社会制度的空子!本来多人用就是允许的. 因为地铁的网站上边对于月票的使用规定写的很清楚,是不能在 同一时间 (AT THE SAME TIME, EN MEME TEMPS)两人用同一张月票,对于使用没有其他的要求!!!!!!我想没有月一张月票同时过两人的,这是确定的!!!!;) 既然有人出租或者出售月票,那么也就是有需求,又为什么不可以呢???

其实不用去查什么Definition, 也能感到一人需买一张票的基本意义. 两人或多人长期用一张票(除了一家人),当然是叫钻空子. 做凡事都有一个Big Common Sense-Gross Bon Sens. 一个群体或社会有相同或相似的Big Common Sense-Gross Bon Sens, 那就会好的多了. 我想, 来这里的移民, 因为过去的理念不同,习惯不同, Common Sense 不同, 就有不同的作法, 甚至认为没什么大不了的. 但我们现在生活在加拿大, 应该去认同当地人的Common Sense-Gross Bon Sens 成为值得骄傲的人.

有需要才会有人卖, 但并不是说它一定正当. 我真同意WU808 的说法, 时间和精力应该放在别的地方. 我想也是个人的价值感,尊严,或说行为方式. 如果是我, 偶尔乘地铁,我会买单张票, 如有计划多次使用, 那就买几张, 超过20次, 那就买月票. 如果月票忘带, 我就拿钱买一张, 我也绝不会想借朋友的. 即使朋友要借给我, 我也不会接受. 因为我认为没必要(我是独立的), 在朋友面前有尊严, 也感到对这个体制不尊敬.

就此话题, 我想多说几句. 关于借人东西. 长期以来, 我注意到在诸多方面, 中国人(不了解台湾及其它地方来的华人)和总称西方人有说不完的区别. 其中关于借东西就很不一样. 西方人相对较独立, 不轻易, 那怕是向自己的家人, 借东西. 而中国人则可以做到第一次认识就开口借, 比如CD, DVD. 不可能不说这是很糟糕的价值取向及习惯. 当我买有新的DVD 或CD, 有中国朋友来家, 我都把它们放在抽屉里, 因为我知道, 他们中大多数会要借,开口借, 不借又不好. 是不是我太小气? 能到家里的也都是好朋友, 还计较这些? 但我万不得已不向人借东西, 更不用说第一次认识借人东西了. 这是我个人的感受, 不批评跟我有不同习惯的人. 我还注意到, 有些人在西方人面前较小心, 但在自己中国人面前就开始随便起来. 也许是感觉找到了认同感? 这种多人使用一张票, 不能不说跟上述习惯无关.

只是随便交流, 没有批评或伤害的意思. 爱是我的宗旨. 谢谢!

STL

大陆人的另一个丑陋：出租滑雪票。

wu808

STL, 我不知道你为什么那么恨大陆人?!  
实际上, 有些事情在说别人时, 想想自己是否做到? 我是搞计算机服务的, 就我知道, 一些台湾来的人, 就在计算机安上许多盗版软件.  STL, 我不肯定你是从哪儿来, 但是, 你敢肯定从来没有做过不符合道德的事?
关于一些丑陋, 我知道有些华人做. 但是不完全都是从大陆来的中国人做. 有的是其他亚裔人. 由于中国开始强大, 只要是亚裔的面孔, 大多数人认为是中国人.
实际上, 一些大陆来的人都是做一些小的不道德事,象我们讨论的月票, 才有几个钱?  同本地人相比真是小巫见大巫. 简单的列子, 就是合理利用税收的政策的漏洞偷税漏税.

如果你乘火车, 出MONTREAL后, 抓的人基本上没有亚裔的人, 说明了什么, 贪便宜的事不是华人的专利.
请不要认为我是对大陆一些人的丑陋现象辩护, 我只是想说, 任何一个社会团体, 都有精英和残渣.

Post by STL
大陆人的另一个丑陋：出租滑雪票。

hangzhou62

You are partially right. But here unlike in China, if something is not prohibited by law, then it's legal. Don't take things for granted.

STM prohibits to rent and resell the ticket (thanks to wu808's information), but it does not prohibit sharing the tichet/pass according to the best of my knowledge. If you think that a family shares a pass is 'ok', why not brothers/sisters (adult brothers/sisters are not considered as a family here in Canada), or close friends, neighbers, coworkers? Law should be practical. Sharing ticket should be either legal or illegal, no exception unless otherwise specified.

On the other hand, people should be thoughtful to those less fortunate. Try to be more constructive and helpful. Those who think sharing ticket in a family does not morally stand higher than others.

To STL, I feel pity for you. What are you trying to do? To twist the fact or just to comfort your weak mind? Mainlander are not perfect. But arrogance and blindness will not make you superior to others, but only show your ignorance and prejudice. So why don't you adjust yourself?

Post by xiaodoudou
其实不用去查什么Definition, 也能感到一人需买一张票的基本意义. 两人或多人长期用一张票(除了一家人),当然是叫钻空子. 做凡事都有一个Big Common Sense-Gross Bon Sens.  

Thanks for your information.

Post by wu808
It should be http://www.stm.info/en-bref/R-037.pdf with no# 69
This is French for STM.

For STL it has the english version.
http://www.stl.laval.qc.ca/documents/BY-LAW-CA-8.pdf

The no is 54

q2006c

Post by hangzhou62
You are partially right. But here unlike in China, if something is not prohibited by law, then it's legal. Don't take things for granted.

STM prohibits to rent and resell the ticket (thanks to wu808's information), but it does not prohibit sharing the tichet/pass according to the best of my knowledge. If you think that a family shares a pass is 'ok', why not brothers/sisters (adult brothers/sisters are not considered as a family here in Canada), or close friends, neighbers, coworkers? Law should be practical. Sharing ticket should be either legal or illegal, no exception unless otherwise specified.  

这里讨论和鞭挞的是：1、成人使用学生票；2、后来引出的地铁票出租和转让；3、再后来引出了滑雪票的出租。

wu808

成人使用学生票的人要注意了, 如果被抓住不但被罚款, 据说也将永远记录在案. 对以后的申请公民, 上法庭等都有影响.

wu808

应该没有错的, 好象成人使用学生票这是违法的, 不是钻空子的问题. 将来有麻烦. 似乎地铁的检查人员和汽车司机没有权罚款, 但是他可以报警. 如果被警察罚款, 那么就有记录. 这和驾驶违章不同只是罚款了事. 如果将来上法庭, 对方律师能调出所有的记录.

Post by vipkj
那有那么严重！吓死人了，还要记入档案？用个地铁票，怎么很刑事犯罪一样吓人，跟法西斯国家一样？回国！没法混了！

xiaodoudou

To Hangzhou62:
  
The Big Common Sense tells us that adults taking advantage of the benefit for children and sharing ticket is NOT right as our social behaviour and I believe it is not legal according to the law as WU808 has given information. But those who do it, should keep it within their families which is ACCEPTABLE(by the way, I have no families who are doing that). If it is between friends, neigbours, co-workers, then it has crossed the LINE and it will be taken as fraud. The law and the system have to be supported by every one of us, otherwise the society will colapse. Fortunately, the absolute majority is not doing that.

Quote:

"On the other hand, people should be thoughtful to those less fortunate. Try to be more constructive and helpful. Those who think sharing ticket in a family does not morally stand higher than others."Quote.

To use student's pass as an adult, or sharing pass among friends all the time HAS NOTHING TO DO with being:" thoughtful to those less fortunate". As I said, it is not a question of money! It is REALLY a question of respect: respect ourselves, others and the system! Here I do think that because of the past living experience in CHINA, ( I truely regret in saying that ) quite some Chinese (don't know other Chinese from other places) don't know the word: RESPECT. Because in China, nobody respects nobody, people tend to "respect" mostly or only their family members, friends, superiors in their jobs, etc. and they don't respect the system neither ( let's not talk about the system in China, if so, it is going to be too long).

I can not do nothing for now for the Chinese in China, but I hope I can do something for the Chinese here(those who are willing to change) by exchanging opinions. I want to help, NOT want to stand higher. If I can help, I WILL stand on the bottom to support them. You have misunderstood me unfortunately!

Little story about feeling Superior( stand higher):

Years ago, I had a Chinese girl in my class. One day, she told me that she was leaving for China once she got her permanent resident card. I asked why, she said: "I can not stand here because I do not feel superior here". To tell you the truth, I have been feeling very sad for her. I am not rich, I am not poor, I came to Canada NOT to be superior or stand HIGHER than others. I come to Canada to GROW, to DEVELOP, to UNDERSTAND better about myself, China, Chinese and other countries and people who are different from us and I come here to become a wise and confident person and a fountain of love so that one day, I can stand firm, will be full of commom senses and have the power to make the right choices and decisions in my life.

I truely hope that Chinese should stop fighting for anything ridiculous like to be right, to be superior or to stand higher. I know that If I want truely to help and love, I have NO CHOICE, but on the BOTTOM.

Thank you Hangzhou62 for your comments!

圆明园

Post by xiaodoudou

....
I am not rich, I am not poor, I came to Canada NOT to be superior or stand HIGHER than others. I come to Canada to GROW, to DEVELOP, to UNDERSTAND better about myself,
....

well said.