mfeous

i agree with you except the part in red. personnaly i prefer the melting pot idea than multiculturalism. i do not think canada adopted this police itself, but becaseu of the noise made by french canadian in the begining.
i beleive multiculturalism produces divisions, hostility and conflict instead of uniting everybody together. that is what happening in the west after post modern time, everybody beleives they have the truth, in the end, there is no truth anymore.
i don't think it is the progress for a socity to promote guy, abortion rights and legalize maranuna, as they are agaisnt humanitity and wrong. it is the shame for our society.
in order to be political correct, nobody dares to say "marry christmas" in the public from political leader (except PM Harper). i found that is the backward for canada.
americans are more united and patriotic as you can see lots of national flags flying everywhere. they feel it is their home and they are pround of being americans
do you feel you blong to canada?

Post by xiaodoudou;2195026
我也不同意您的中美政治半斤八两的观点. 政府里都有黑暗, 可政体,两个性质完全不同.

要知道, 科技, 它直接反映政治和文化. 中国近代科技不发达, 当然也是政治和文化使然. 我明白您想要说的是: 中国有她深厚的文化精华, 但我请问您: 有多少老百姓知道老子, 庄子? 中国现实生活中有多少人在受益我们的文化? 有几个知道增广意经,等等? 我都不知道, 我们的国家语文课, 都在教些什么, 既不是优秀的中国文化, 也不是西方History of Enlightment!

美国, 目的是要成功. 美国也是想成功人们的梦, 因为她鼓励和相信人人平等, 并鼓励人们为之努力. 目的是成功, 这就决定她必须凝聚和统一大多数人的思想和行为. 文化意识当然也就是先驱. 可以说, 为了达到成功的目的, 美国文化和宗教是较单一的,较集中的, 较排外的. 就象欧洲早期的思巴达. 步调一致, 才能成功. 美国是世界强国(it IS in deep economic shit, but its political system, of which the foundation is laid by its great ancestors, will save America again), 确实, 人文方面就不如加拿大了.

加拿大就如古欧洲与思巴达同期的雅典, 注重的是平衡, 保留的是人类高尚的对弱势群体的同情和体恤, 选择的是给予民众更多的自由(包括GUY RIGHT), 容纳不同文化之音乐,艺术,习俗, 和保护可能在北美面临危机的法语文化和仅存的土著文化. 其实加拿大, 是人文更为发展和先进的国家, 尽管她的经济不如其他一些国家超前. 在选择人民的自由安康和一味追求超前之间, 加拿大选择前者, 是我们的福份. 我欣赏美国精神, 可是认为加拿大更为明智和慈善! 更爱加拿大多元的语言文化艺术, 自由的宗教信仰!当然, 很不幸的是, 雅典最后被思巴达消灭了! 我可不希望美国将来消灭加拿大(美国发烧, 加拿大也头疼!), 所以, 还是爱加拿大吧! 理解加拿大, 临处美国要保住自己的文化是多末地不容易! 不然, 加拿大会被美国同化, 天天吃HAMBURGERS!( 开玩笑了!)

加拿大, 更适合移民生存和发展, 特别是QUEBEC! 因为她的宽容, 平衡和慈爱!QUEBEC的QUIET REVOLUTION, 是加拿大少数民族(FRENCH)为争取自己权利和地位的斗争, 也为加拿大其他少数民族移民们的生存和发展奠定了基础, 使加拿大成为世界上少有的文化容纳程度极大的国家! 希望中国的移民们看清自己现在的国家和省份, 珍惜加拿大代代努力的结果, 尊重FRENCH为多元文化所做的贡献, 并为之添砖加瓦!

很高兴将来能有机会认识您本人, 能一起做事那就更是感情!!如果真心, 在适当的时候, 给个认识方法.

各位晚安!

windman

Post by tjquebec;2195142
你去过中国的大陆吗？你理解的中国不是你说的这个样子。无法无政，暗无天日，蒋介石治下的中国包括台湾可能是如你所说。那你就该去骂蒋介石啊，如果你是一个正义的人。可惜你不是。台湾的今天不也是暗无天日吗？陈水扁做头领期间大肆贪污，更有甚者，自己做错了，根本不服法认罪，证明其人格低下。谁弄的清楚老百姓为啥不长眼选得全市一帮贪官污吏。
说道奸杀子女的父亲，这种事好像西方和哈西方的台湾挺多啊。大陆就非常罕见。还是检讨一下台湾文化和社会究竟出了什么问题，不要想精神病一样，管事过宽啊。http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8OCfIWqNDk
http://post-social.news.tom.com/0600076A842.html

蔣介石的白色恐怖最可怕的日子,也比不上現在的大陸.看你的舉例,便可証明台灣的進步,和大陸的黑暗了.起碼陳水扁貪污,可以得到追究,等一天江澤民,胡溫等人的貪腐也能被傳媒報導,被法院起訴時,再來說台灣黑暗吧.:rolleyes:

mfeous

各位难道一点都不想念中国，不想念家乡吗?就冲着我们一点对家乡的眷恋之情，也不能忘本到去舔别人屁股啊。this is a insult for every overseas chinese, including yourself. you are slaming yourself by saying that. don't tell us you wanted to marry your western husband, it is simply becasue he is "handsome", but has nothing to do with his charactors, which deeply rooted in western cultural envoirment he grew up.

我们要自强不息，不忘本原。一个没有父母的人是孤儿，不承认自己父母之邦文化价值的更是！
these are empty words. what do you expect us to do? write the paper in chinese in school; answer the boss in maderin at work... you are mixing the concepts here. i love my parents, but it is not necesarily they are always right and i have to listen to them. this is exatly what you did to your parent as you mentioned in your prevous posts.
我并不是不爱加拿大。我只是更爱中国而已, 那里有我的爸爸妈妈，外公外婆，我从小玩大的朋友，家乡的绿水青山。加拿大再好，终归不是我从小长大的地方。
this is culture superiorism.

还有那位打英文的M先生，在你说中文前，我不回应你
i guess you only speak chinese at home. otherwise, i can only call this behavour childish.

Post by yelenia;2194894
你们又在偷换概念了，xiaoren你这全篇说的是科技，科技。可我说的是]政治啊！针对他说的美国"民主自由"来的啊。我也没有说过CCP以及新中国一句好话。我说的是美国政治一点也不清明，黑得很呢，没什么好仰视的。政治！政治！我说的是美国"民主自由"的这一大谎言。（有空看看我推荐的纪录片嘛，很好看，很深刻的。）CIA双手沾满鲜血，这样的恶棍逻辑，是没什么好仰视的。政治啊！我是在批判楼主的文化自卑感，而不是论题本身！

我从来就没有说过中国科技方面比美国进步啊，科技方面那是楼主想探讨的。我一直都在评判楼那种自轻自贱的态度，对自己文化的自卑感。文化！文化！文化除了科技，还有人文哪！共产主义中国是没有什么文化输出，但我却见过半个中国街头巷尾深厚的文化积淀。野火烧不尽，春风吹又生。说到这里，建议大家去读读龙应台，她国外生活半生，西方知识积淀极为深厚，却是一个真正的中国人，任台北的文化部长。她的作品一定能给各位愿意思考的人们诸多启发。

我知道，大家既要洗去身上的共产主义洗脑的烙印，又要努力去适应当地文化，还要注意不忘自己的中国人身份。我知道这很难，这是我花这么多时间在这个帖子上的原因。各位难道一点都不想念中国，不想念家乡吗?就冲着我们一点对家乡的眷恋之情，也不能忘本到去舔别人屁股啊。我们要自强不息，不忘本原。一个没有父母的人是孤儿，不承认自己父母之邦文化价值的更是！

这个帖子里的人们，一直在批判我见识短浅，认为我觉得中国文化还有大价值，中国还有灿烂的明天，是井底之蛙的缘故。各位，我为什么还没走掉，一次次出来回复呢? 要自强实在该有这样的态度，百折不回才是。我并不是不爱加拿大。我只是更爱中国而已。那里有我的爸爸妈妈，外公外婆，我从小玩大的朋友，家乡的绿水青山。加拿大再好，终归不是我从小长大的地方。

还有那位打英文的M先生，在你说中文前，我不回应你。

xiaodoudou：原来是老乡，我挺喜欢你的，觉得你说话很真诚热心啊，很难得的。什么时候一起聊聊天，讲讲外嫁的故事吧。我有写个专题报道的打算，还有本地被领养的中国孩子的故事。如果能申请到fund，就可以弄。不过那大概是秋天的计划了。

xiaodoudou

Post by mfeous;2195215
i agree with you except the part in red. personnaly i prefer the melting pot idea than multiculturalism. i do not think canada adopted this police itself, but becaseu of the noise made by french canadian in the begining.
i beleive multiculturalism produces divisions, hostility and conflict instead of uniting everybody together. that is what happening in the west after post modern time, everybody beleives they have the truth, in the end, there is no truth anymore.
i don't think it is the progress for a socity to promote guy, abortion rights and legalize maranuna, as they are agaisnt humanitity and wrong. it is the shame for our society.
in order to be political correct, nobody dares to say "marry christmas" in the public from political leader (except PM Harper). i found that is the backward for canada.
americans are more united and patriotic as you can see lots of national flags flying everywhere. they feel it is their home and they are pround of being americans
do you feel you blong to canada?

You are allowed to have your opinions. I can see that we have very different value preference. I didn't say that it is the progress for a society to promote guy, legalize Mariuana, etc., yet, deadly true, that the advanced society is the one which allows its people to be whom they are and whom they want to be while guiding them with results of scientific research and human history and trying to keep a balance between personal and national values.

Mr.M. when you explain your opinions, please just be careful not to put words into my mouth.

It will be too long and impossible to persuade people to agree with me. Again, 仁者见仁, 智者见智. 各抒己见.

I will choose Canada as my country soon after 9 years of being with her. I belong to wherever reasons are and whatever that represents advancement,  positive construction and wherever healthiness and happiness are!

情定爱琴海

你能不能说中文？你如果不会说，没关系，找个人帮你翻译一下，你看如何？你的英文如果真的不错，看着养眼也行，你说你一口的中式英文，不伦不类的，看着让人头疼。你说要是不看吧，还跟不上帖子内容的变换，真愁人

Post by mfeous;2195314
各位难道一点都不想念中国，不想念家乡吗?就冲着我们一点对家乡的眷恋之情，也不能忘本到去舔别人屁股啊。this is a insult for every overseas chinese, including yourself. you are slaming yourself by saying that. don't tell us you wanted to marry your western husband, it is simply becasue he is "handsome", but has nothing to do with his charactors, which deeply rooted in western cultural envoirment he grew up.

我们要自强不息，不忘本原。一个没有父母的人是孤儿，不承认自己父母之邦文化价值的更是！
these are empty words. what do you expect us to do? write the paper in chinese in school; answer the boss in maderin at work... you are mixing the concepts here. i love my parents, but it is not necesarily they are always right and i have to listen to them. this is exatly what you did to your parent as you mentioned in your prevous posts.
我并不是不爱加拿大。我只是更爱中国而已, 那里有我的爸爸妈妈，外公外婆，我从小玩大的朋友，家乡的绿水青山。加拿大再好，终归不是我从小长大的地方。
this is culture superiorism.

还有那位打英文的M先生，在你说中文前，我不回应你
i guess you only speak chinese at home. otherwise, i can only call this behavour childish.

7Quebec

以前上学的时候，英语课上总讲美国梦。美国梦也成了许多中国人的梦。

美国，也就仰视起来， 所以买东西就买美国的吧。需要电脑，就从戴尔公司订购一台电脑，咱不能结绳记事而不用电脑啊。买来以后，还没来得及仰视，就见电脑上写着Made in China.

后来，买了上Nike鞋， 因为是美国品牌，没穿之前， 总的仰视一番，抬眼望去，却见Made in China.

再后来，遇到了一个黄皮肤，黑眼睛的人，刚叫声同胞，他说，I am American. 一听是美国人，立马仰视起来，说，I am sorry, I think you are Chinese. 他说，Never mind, my parents are Chinese. 我一听，去他妈的，中国人是美国人的爹，还仰视个屁啊。

Post by xianren;2194323
这位叶小姐，美国的太空站，美国的飞来飞去的航天飞机，美国的波音麦道，美国漫天的低空卫星指引着你车内的GPS，看这些东西，全世界都得仰视，九百六十万平方公里上的中国人还得真仰视着看，没办法。

还有，你在这里发帖，看着电脑，你同样得仰视着美国，因为每一台电脑里装着都是美国人搞出来系统，无论你的电脑是PC还是MAC，无论是组装的还是原装的，你都得仰视，除非你结绳记事不用电脑。

刚到加拿大不久时开车从蒙特利尔去波士顿，说实话，到美国的第一印象，除了公路 比加拿大好以外，没有觉得美国怎么地。但是，这几年来随着做生意跟北美社会打交道的深入，从本公司使用的最先进的美国通信系统到帐务系统，到朋友与美国生物医学领域的交道，美国，其科技领域的成就，不得不令每一位尊重科学崇尚技术的人士所仰视，所折服。

无知者无畏，一个刚到加拿大整天泡在学校里或者围着灶台转的中国人，是不可能感受到美国的力量在哪里？也不会承认更不会去探究这种力量的源泉是什么。

美国的这次危机只是金融危机，而中国把这场危机解读为美国的社会危机和政治危机，意在宣传社会主义的优越性，从而达到宣传一党专政的正确与合法性的目的，向处于井底的中国人灌输共产党不但可以救中国而且还可以拯救全世界！美国航天飞机没有停飞，美国的航母没有抛锚，美国的好莱坞片场依然灯火通明，美国的肯德基麦当劳可口可乐依然填充着全世界包括中国人的胃，美国的IT产业没有停滞，每天都有供中国人模仿和抄袭的网络新概念以及基于网络的商业模式在诞生。

温家宝曾经仰天长叹，书有诗作“仰望星空”，我不知道那天晚上他是否仰望到了美国的航天飞机，是否仰望到了占全球导航市场95％以上的为你我他导航的美国GPS卫星群，是否仰望到了中国最大的连锁超市Wal-Mart调度配货的卫星，是否仰望到了每天上百架次掠过北京中南海上空的波音飞机们。如果他没有望到，我希望叶小姐别说你也没有仰望到。

美国跟中国的差别不是半斤八两，而是冯姥姥跟马姥姥的差别--差得不是一点而是两点。

W2S

如果你要是遇见房明祖, 你是否又找一个美国的爹? .....

mfeous

we agree on disagree; i did not put words in your mouth, instead i just wanted to make a point. please explain what you meant: 确实, 人文方面就不如加拿大了.

canada's history is boring and you can barely to find any well known writers, painters.....; quebec is the worst place in north america in terms of culture tolarence.

i don't know how you came up that arguement.

Post by xiaodoudou;2195328
You are allowed to have your opinions. I can see that we have very different value preference. I didn't say that it is the progress for a society to promote guy, legalize Mariuana, etc., yet, deadly true, that the advanced society is the one which allows its people to be whom they are and whom they want to be while guiding them with results of scientific research and human history and trying to keep a balance between personal and national values.

Mr.M. when you explain your opinions, please just be careful not to put words into my mouth.

It will be too long and impossible to persuade people to agree with me. Again, 仁者见仁, 智者见智. 各抒己见.

I will choose Canada as my country soon after 9 years of being with her. I belong to wherever reasons are and whatever that represents advancement, positive construction and wherever healthiness and happiness are!

hoopchina

1、自由民主在目前来看，是人类社会发展趋势，这个话题太大，如果想讨论，可以另开一贴。
2、一个有趣的现象是，专政国家的人更倾向以历史上的成就骄傲。我和实验室的伊朗朋友讨论，发现他们国家有同样的问题。而我现在觉得，无论是中国式的爱国情绪（偏重文化，历史）或者美国式的爱国情绪（偏重美国梦，以及对自由民主的信仰）都导致了畸形的结果；中国的问题在于以自己的文化、历史为傲，居然爱屋及乌到喜欢曾经极大破坏甚至几乎毁灭传统文化的统治党，而美国的问题在于民主自由的信仰没错，但是被宣传误导盲目扩大化，在没有知识背景的情况下就敢妄谈一个地区或者国家的民主。我更喜欢北欧一些国家的爱国方式，“我爱我的国家，因为我的国家给人民提供公平的社会制度，良好的福利以及被尊重的态度。”这是美国式国富民不均，中国国富民穷所不能比拟的。
3、汉族本来是一个大国心态的民族，爱国这种东西从来不挂在嘴上，是一个及其自信的民族，在历史上善于自嘲，善于从不同民族文化中学习新的知识，也都是自信的表现。从战国时期赵国学习胡服骑射，到唐朝接纳遣唐使做官，这个传统一直延续到明朝；在清末之后大批的留学生也为促进中国文化科技进步做了很多努力。而现在，不是外国人说我们怎么了，哪怕中国人自己讨论一下自己的问题，就要被踢到对立面，带上汉奸的帽子，我们的自嘲哪儿去了？我们的自信哪儿去了？为什么我们这么怕讨论我们原本相信的东西？

xiaodoudou

Post by mfeous;2195837
we agree on disagree; i did not put words in your mouth, instead i just wanted to make a point. please explain what you meant: 确实, 人文方面就不如加拿大了.

canada's history is boring and you can barely to find any well known writers, painters.....; quebec is the worst place in north america in terms of culture tolarence.

i don't know how you came up that arguement.

Life is what we see it to be! I agree that the history of US is much more interesting and inspiring than that of Canada. I feel very happy and encouraged because of different cultures as well such as French in Quebec so that we can see things this way and that way, enjoy life this way AND that way!! French culture is so fine and interesting!!!! Of course, English Canadians need Quebec to identity themselves, otherwise, they are plain Canadian English, which is very fine with me! Boring? Are you living here in Canada? If yes, make it interesting then! No? Quebec worse? I find it is very admirable and inspiring to know about the history of Quebec! I am proud of Quebecois and what they have achieved in the last few decades so that Quebec has become an equally important and VERY interesting province in Canada! By the way, do you speak French, do you know and are you willing to know about them? Maybe not, but it doesn't matter. Your negative opinions about the place where you live will not affect others, yet it will affect your life itself.